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WR Responsibilities; '11 vs '12

  • We have read other WRs talk about how screwed up Todd Graham's offense was for receivers last season - here is a pretty clear explanation from Cam Saddler on it:

    "But Saddler has little time for anything other than worrying about his assignments while he tries to unlearn what former coach Todd Graham taught him.

    “Details,” said Saddler, when asked how Chryst’s offense differs from last year’s no-huddle attack. “Last year, it was, ‘Get to a spot and hope to get the ball.’ Now you have to be in the right spot to get the ball.

    “You have to hone in on the details — route depths, splits, little things. That’s kind of the part I struggle with. I’m having a little trouble the first week and a half.”

    I also found out last Saturday that for all of Graham's spring practice, training camp and up to the fifth game of the season there were no "check downs" on passing plays - it was all up to the QB to do what he wanted out there. I was pretty shocked to hear that as every offense has that sequence established for their QB on passing plays. It was like 'zone passing' out there.

    If a WR knows he's not going to be checked down to as the specific #2 or #3 option then they'll be floating around out there, which we heard Shanahan and Street bitch about after last season ended. But if the WR is sure he's one of those options and that he has to run a specific route and depth for the QB to hit him on the check down then he'll make sure he's there.

    Hearing that made a lot of sense as that would contribute a lot to the indecision we saw out of Sunseri. Then, instituting a major change to his passing responsibilities in mid-season is a big curve ball also. He still was in the personal panic mode a lot of times but going from check down passing to a free for all approach is a huge change for a QB. To me that explains why Sunseri didn't seem to be confused and panicky in 2010 as he did in 2011.

    For this fact alone - having established #1, #2, #3 receivers on each passing play and knowing exactly where they should be is going to make our passing and receiving better this season than it was last. That's a big deal.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by rkohberger on 8/15/2012 at 4:26 AM

    After coaching changes and injuries, Saddler set to lead Pitt receivers | TribLIVE

    http://triblive.com/sports/college/pitt/2407209-85/saddler-pitt-chryst-receivers-coach-injuries-playing-season-ball-cam

    triblive.com

    Checkdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkdown

    en.wikipedia.org

    rkohberger

  • Yup, that's why I'm more optimistic about Tino and the team this year. Amazing that Fraud Graham continues to be employed, and that Norville, his OC, is a putz.

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    BurghGuy68 ●

  • Reed,

    That's interesting stuff. You scooped the so called professional sports writers...

    Wouldn't this "check down" aspect of the offense have to have been the responsibility of Calvin McGee, the OC? And while he seemed like a decent guy, I have to wonder whether Calvin's heart (and mind) was ever really in his job last season, knowing that he'd be leaving to follow RichRod at the end of the season... Same goes for the other RichRod assistants that we rented for last season.

    Seems like the adults are back in charge at Pitt. Thank goodness.

    Go Pitt.

    MajorMajors

  • I'm sure that added a lot to the sack totals too.

    Phaser

  • Wow, that's one of the most disorganized offensive schemes I've ever heard of.

    Graham was lucky to have such quality QBs while at Tulsa, because it takes a very, very good one to be able to make all those decisions and be able to scan the entire field when there's no certainty about where the WRs will be at any given time. I feel bad for Tino, because that scheme is ridiculous. No check down? That's retarded and asks the QB to be superman.

    Graham is in trouble at ASU if he takes the same approach because they don't have a QB that can function like that.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion ●

  • It reminds me of playing pick-up football on the streets..."you go to the pole and try and get open and you go to the blue car and make a left and you....you just go long!"

    Gregpitt

  • Phaser said...

    I'm sure that added a lot to the sack totals too.

    Absolutely.

    Comfort comes from repetition, and if there are no consistent check downs or timing of routes and passes, how can the offensive line get comfortable? Same goes for Tino.

    signature image signature image signature image

    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion ●

  • Actually ASU landed a 4 star mobile QB a few yrs ago (Pitt was in the mix...was when Graham first started at Pitt). I think his name started with Michael. I'm too lazy to google it. I think it's Michael Eubanks.

    Might fit in well with his scheme.

    This post was edited by BurghGuy68 on 8/15/2012 at 10:23 AM

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    BurghGuy68 ●

  • BurghGuy68 said...

    Actually ASU landed a 4 star mobile QB a few yrs ago (Pitt was in the mix...was when Graham first started at Pitt). I think his name started with Michael. I'm too lazy to google it. Might fit in well with his scheme.

    With a scheme that asks so much of the QB, I think it's a crapshoot as to who can handle it.

    It may help him that they ran a pass heavy spread before, but it's still tough.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion ●

  • all the receivers have had rave reviews too for bobby Ingram, the wide receivers coach, actually teaching them something.
    It didnt seem like they learned anything at all last year.
    Maybe we can petition the NCAA for all the players to get a year of eligibility back
    since they didn't learn anything tangible last year.

    Steve Flinn ●

  • Steve Flinn said...

    all the receivers have had rave reviews too for bobby Ingram, the wide receivers coach, actually teaching them something. It didnt seem like they learned anything at all last year. Maybe we can petition the NCAA for all the players to get a year of eligibility back since they didn't learn anything tangible last year.

    I think between Engram and Rudolph we're going to see a jump in our passing game.

    Again, we won't see stardom out there but we are going to better our 34% 3rd down conversion rate - which was putrid last season. Instead of Sunseri having a 64% completion rate with dinks and short passes I think we'll get more 10-20 yards pass plays thru the air with some YAC.

    If you know where the receiver is supposed to be then you can try to lead him with the ball.

    If Shell doesn't redshirt he'll help with that on short yardage plays also.

    rkohberger

  • rkohberger said...

    I think between Engram and Rudolph we're going to see a jump in our passing game.

    Again, we won't see stardom out there but we are going to better our 34% 3rd down conversion rate - which was putrid last season. Instead of Sunseri having a 64% completion rate with dinks and short passes I think we'll get more 10-20 yards pass plays thru the air with some YAC.

    If you know where the receiver is supposed to be then you can try to lead him with the ball.

    If Shell doesn't redshirt he'll help with that on short yardage plays also.

    Reed, do you really think Shell will redshirt?

    Phaser

  • Its actually not a bad offensive system. They are called option routes. They are used to great success by many of the most dynamic teams in college football and even the NFL. Walt even tried it back in the day (to similar results to what we saw las year).

    This post was edited by rfalcone on 8/15/2012 at 2:15 PM

    rfalcone

  • Phaser said...

    Reed, do you really think Shell will redshirt?

    He might and that won't be a bad thing. He's getting less reps than any one else right now.

    We are flush with RBs this season and Malcolm Crockett is a good ballplayer to have to beat out for that 3rd slot. I know everyone and his brother thinks that Shell is for sure going to the NFL in three years but it would be nice to be solid the #3 RB on your college team before that happens.

    Don't forget, he has Isaac Bennett and Malcolm Crockett alongside him for the 2013 and 2014 season. Then he has Cory Clement coming in next season also. Those are some quality guys to compete against for playing time.

    Now, I think Shell will get a ton of playing time at PITT but it may not be this year or even next depending on how Bennett/Crockett do. He's going to be in an offense that uses a lot of RBs so that is good. But he may not be a superstar until later in his college career if at all.

    Note: I forgot to say that I could understand not redshirting Shell this season so that he could be a short yardage back or to play some FB, which I don't think would happen (FB) but would like to see it.

    This post was edited by rkohberger on 8/15/2012 at 4:31 PM

    rkohberger

  • Gregpitt said...

    It reminds me of playing pick-up football on the streets..."you go to the pole and try and get open and you go to the blue car and make a left and you....you just go long!"

    Greg- Where did you grow up? Did you have to stop play when a car was coming down the street? I led the borough of Brooklyn in defensive backs hit by '57 Chevys because I wouldn't warn them.

    KayserSouze

  • A couple points.

    1. Walt did experiment with option routes and some NFL teams use them. But, the big difference is it's usually 1 receiver. The saints and packers sometimes have more than 1 but they are professionals who practice all the time. To expect tino and the wr to learn that is borderline retarded. Moreover, it was usually both wr with options in addition to the te and run option. Again, having tino who never ran anything similar run That is crazy.

    2. When you don't know where your wr are and a pass rush is bearing down u dont keep your eyes downfield. Tino won't get sacked 30 times let alone 60.

    Wh4p

  • rfalcone said...

    Its actually not a bad offensive system. They are called option routes. They are used to great success by many of the most dynamic teams in college football and even the NFL. Walt even tried it back in the day (to similar results to what we saw las year).

    Option routes are great when used sparingly, and typically not when every receiver runs an option route. There are too many variables for the QB to keep up with in too short of a time span. It's one thing when they have an entire spring and summer and fall of experience with it and understand how quickly they have to think, but it's still difficult.

    Most offensive route trees still have sequences, even with option routes. The QB knows to look in this part of the field first, then this part, then this, then he's probably sacked. It doesn't sound like this was the case though.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion ●

  • Wh4p said...

    A couple points.

    1. Walt did experiment with option routes and some NFL teams use them. But, the big difference is it's usually 1 receiver. The saints and packers sometimes have more than 1 but they are professionals who practice all the time. To expect tino and the wr to learn that is borderline retarded. Moreover, it was usually both wr with options in addition to the te and run option. Again, having tino who never ran anything similar run That is crazy.

    2. When you don't know where your wr are and a pass rush is bearing down u dont keep your eyes downfield. Tino won't get sacked 30 times let alone 60.

    This

    signature image signature image signature image

    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion ●

  • FInally you guys are drinking my Tino-Aide!!!!

    It's Tino Time in 2012!!!!

    PhPanther1 ●

  • Wh4p said...

    A couple points.

    1. Walt did experiment with option routes and some NFL teams use them. But, the big difference is it's usually 1 receiver. The saints and packers sometimes have more than 1 but they are professionals who practice all the time. To expect tino and the wr to learn that is borderline retarded. Moreover, it was usually both wr with options in addition to the te and run option. Again, having tino who never ran anything similar run That is crazy.

    2. When you don't know where your wr are and a pass rush is bearing down u dont keep your eyes downfield. Tino won't get sacked 30 times let alone 60.

    I knew that the 'option' concept was used in the NFL but when I heard Graham tried to institute it for PITT, for all the WRs on every play, after only spring practice and summer camp to get it down my jaw dropped.

    Of all the "square pegs / round holes" that Graham attempted this may have been the stupidest because it just piled on the uncertainty for Sunseri. It was truly like he changed everything Sunseri knew about playing football and expected great results from a QB who isn't great to start with.

    Well, apparently Chryst's approach is completely 180 degrees different than that. If anything, Sunseri needs playcalling and sn offense that builds confidence not tears it down.

    rkohberger

  • It's painfully obvious that Fraud Graham saw the writing on the wall that he was gonna be an epic failure this year again, so he bolted Dodge (as did Todd Dodge)...and now is making it seem like Pittsburgh was the reason, not him.

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    BurghGuy68 ●

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