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"soft selling" doesn't work...

  • This commit caught all off guard. I will admit, I thought it was a done deal and clearly I was wrong. However, Nobody saw this coming and I think you can tell by some of things out there that it was a shocker

  • Actually, Vinopal told us Pitt didn't recruit him.
    On another note, I believe it is over, however, I also believe like others, that alot of things don't add up.
    I don't know if I've ever heard Pitt lost out due to academics? usually that's one of the big things Pitt recruits talk about being impressed with, even kids that don't choose Pitt.
    and also to say how much the mother and little brother matter,
    but then go play 1,000 miles away so they can never see him play in person?
    then say how comfortable he felt about NIck Saban? but by the way, he doesnt care if Saban leaves for the Cleveland Browns, that doesnt matter and he would still think Alabama is a better fit?
    and why announce now? if he was that torn between the two teams that be flipped 8 hours before his decision, why not take his time and think about it more until signing day?
    I'm not insinuating the payola route without any proof, that seems sour grapish,
    but I'm thinking he liked Alabama more all along and just didn't want to say anything and take any grief.

  • I get that Foster was a huge recruit for Pitt due to need, his talent and local perception, but lets be real for just a minute. We were up against Alabama, the best team in the country right now. What hard sell tactic did Pitt really have? I guess Chryst could have said "commit to Pitt now or else, or else, or else...well or you will be stuck having to go to Alabama, the most talented and best coached team in the country!"

    Yeah that would have shown him. Seriously those of you making a big deal about soft selling recruits don't understand much. We have been a middle of the road team for thirty years, we are not in position to hard sell five star recruits. We might be able to pull it off with two star players but a player of Foster's ability had nearly unlimited options. Play the supply and demand game. Foster was in high demans plus he had a huge supply of offers. Pitt never was going to get him with a hard sell.

    Foster picked Alabama over us. Not to hard to understand. They are a great team. I wish him nothing but the best. I wanted him at Pitt badly and it sucks he went the other way. Time for Pitt fans to move on and stop looking for people to blame or worse yet please stop making up allegations against Alabama. Many of you are stooping to PSU and WVU fan level. Get a grip and move on. I still think the future with Chryst is bright here at Pitt.

  • I find it disturbing all of these alabama fans fawning over a 17 year old. I guess there's a little bit of Jerry Sandusky in them. Well... they live in Alabamy... 'nuff said.

  • Steve - I wholeheartedly believe the academics story... in reverse though. I think it was pretty clearly explained to him that once he got to Alabama there wasn't a chance in hell he'd ever miss any football time due to academics.

    And I don't buy the whole 'great support system" crap. It was all about the program taking care of its own. I don't believe PITT does that so that could have been the difference maker right there. Had this young man been an average student I'm not sure there would have been a decision like yesterday.

    This post was edited by rkohberger 19 months ago

  • Chryst talked to both Majors, and the Jack, after he was hired. They told him, if you want to succeed, you have to keep the local kids home. The Foster types, not the 2* MAC recruits that deluge our prospect list. They also told him, do it now, do it right. You know the 5 or 6 year project? It's not possible here. Probably isn't anywhere.

    It's a shame the staff couldn't have been experienced enough to beat YSU, Syracuse, or Uconn. 9 and 3 would have been a much better vibe.

  • I'm sure Pitt would have a much better chance if we could just go 9-3 and win a "real" Bowl Game .. like the Hoopies. They always have blockbuster recruiting classes. And that move to a "real" football conference has paid dividends for them. WVU wins these recruiting battles with Alabama all the time. I'm so jealous.

  • Well, obviously you don't understand what I am talking about. I never suggested that Pitt play "hard ball" with a recruit. I never said Pitt should tell him to commit for fear of risking an offer. I am so sick of posters putting words in my mouth than posting a sarcastic post. Robert foster has cavorts Pitt for literally two years. This staff kept it relaxed...."take your visits, take your time". That is what I am suggesting they did wrong. If a kid comes on campus for a visit you do everything in your power to get him to commit. You certainly don't encourage Him to take other visits.

  • How do you know exactly what PITT did with Foster?

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  • Larry cokor wasn't a good recruiter and Ron zook and Dave wannstedt were not guy that soft played very often.

    And I don't know "exactly" what happened. Kind of you not "exactly" playing at Pitt.

  • I thought you carried all of the message boards with your ultimate insider information? Wasn't that what we were told a few weeks ago?



    This post was edited by steelcurtain55 19 months ago

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  • You are suggesting I ever said anything remotely resembling that? Seriously? Please link where I said anything close to that..

    This post was edited by Wh4p 19 months ago

  • Never said that you said you were the ultimate insider but we were all told that you were by someone who has very similar DNA..

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  • Lol. I can't be held accountable for what that guy says.

  • When you say "play soft" what do you mean?

    Everything I've ever been told about DW was that he absolutely told kids that he wanted them to be 100% sure before committing. Wasn't this fairly apparent when the kid from Perry decommitted and tried to recommit and Wanny told him to hit the bricks?

    When I think of a cut throat recruiter I think of RichRod.

    If you're straight up hardcore and you have a product like PITT, you're going to lose more big timers than you gain.

    I know it's a completely different sport but I remember listening to Kobe Bryant talking about Coach K and saying how honest he was in the recruiting process and how he wasn't a negative recruiter and told him to take his visits. He said it was that kind of sincerity is to what made him respect him more than any coach in the process and that he would've ended up at Duke had he been forced to go to college.

    There are several ways to skin a cat in the recruiting game. Chryst will find his way as he goes. If he doesn't, he'll be gone just like many others have.

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  • Then explain please. Do you think Pitt didn't pay enough attention to him? Because I am willing to bet he spent way more time with Pitt coaches than Alabama's coaches. I am also willing to bet he spent way more time on Pitt campus than on 'Bamas campus.

    Are you saying he wanted to commit and Chryst wouldn't let him until he visited Alabama? Do you really think Chryst would turn down a five star player that wanted to commit? Be real for just a minute.

    Have you talked with Coach Chryst? Has he personally explained his recruiting process for each different player with you? He sure didn't push Chapman away. Just because he may have told some players to double check and look around first doesn't mean he does it with everyone. Maybe he was slow playing them to wait and see what other recruits committed??? I know that must be a hard concept to grasp but there is more to this than you are portraying. To be honest you have zero idea unless you have talked to the coach himself. Otherwise you are piecing quotes together and making up a story to go with it. Sure Chryst probably has some kids look around first. No sense having someone commit only to change to another team later. So what if they commit? It is only a verbal which basically means "hold my spot, if in 3 or 4 months I still feel the same I will honor my committment, if not I will change it".

    You don't think there is a chance that Chryst/staff could tell Foster was torn? If so you don't push him to make a decision otherwise it is very likely you push him away. I feel pretty confident that Robert Foster knew how much Pitt wanted him. I don't think there is much more Pitt could have done. What specifically did you want Pitt to do that you don't think the coaches did for Foster? So that I don't put words in your moth please be specific. What hard sell technique was going to make Foster come to Pitt. Enlighten us all mighty recruiting guru.

    And just to be clear, Chryst or any of this staff have not been working on Foster for two years. Chryst got here about a year ago, just after another coach had gotten here a year ago, just after another coach had been fired and his replacement was fired a few days after being named coach. STABILITY over the last couple of years would have helped Pitt with Foster. Wins on the field would have helped Pitt with Foster. A stadium full of fans may have helped. A few conference championships in even a weakened Big East may have helped. An occasional BCS game might also have helped. 6-6 didn't help.

    Don't over complicate this. He is going to play for ALABAMA, not WVU or Temple or Buffalo. He choose the reigning National Champion, the team that is going to be playing for the National Championship for the 3rd time in the last 4 years. They are a great program...right now the best in college football. I still don't like it. I wish he were coming to Pitt. It definitely hurts from a perception standpoint but it is what it is. Whatever his reasons they are hopefully what is in the kids best interest. I just don't believe there is any more Pitt could have done.

  • Prez,

    You know I have a great deal of respect for you but I think Pittpharm laid it out pretty well If your conclusion is based soley on what you read and have no first hand inside info. then I dont think youre connecting the dots accurately.

    I also think Pharm made a great point. Recruiting relationships take time to develop. PC has not been at Pitt long enough to develop that deep bond and trust that would overcome a program like Bama that ha$ ton$ of pre$tige to overcome. Heck you even suggested in another post that something fishy happened at the last minute. THis had nothing to do with a lack of effort on the staffs part and everythng to do with going up against The very best program in the country who has ton$ of resources Pitt doesnt have.

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    A "Real PITT MAN"............get off my porch!

  • Well let me lay it out for you.

    Robert foster heavily, heavily favored Pitt for quite some time. Some of his best friends play at Pitt. The shell 4-1 number thing isn't a rumor it's true. Furthermore, they have been working together with A personal trainer.

    Even with all the instability Pitt has still been able to land highly regarded local kids. Shell had an offer from bama and rippy was highly rated as well. Kids from Pittsburgh rarely, rarely go south to play.

    His coach said that bama recruited him better. I never said that chryst was inept at recruiting. But I said his approach needs tweaked. He let a school come in and out recruit him for a kid in his own backyard. That simply can't happen.

  • Finally...I have never, not 1 time said I "know" anything. People speculate all the time on this message boards.

    The first guy who got on me was rock. Then in another thread he says that foster is probably lying and there is a .000001 percent chance that foster chose Alabama because of academic support. He doesn't know that, it's his opinion.

    Then Pitt pharm lays out a bunch of scenarios where I would be wrong. Giving his opinion. I didn't tear it up or act like his opinion was less thought out then mine. You tell me how many wpial kids went to an sec school because that is a very low number.
    It's my opinion on what happened. And I am the guy you guys love to hate for whatever reason. Look at threads I start, they get the most views and most replies. And people put words in my mouth all the time. I stand by what I said with 1 exception. I said "doesn't work" and I should have said it's a very tough approach to make work.

    This post was edited by Wh4p 19 months ago

  • Well lets be honest wh4p... you did say DJ to OSU haha.

    While I agree with you that the staff should lay off the soft selling... Foster isnt a good example of it.

  • This isn't me disputing what you said but I'm wondering what they meant by "recruited him better". They constantly said that Engram recruited him the hardest [I know hardest isn't best]. I also believe that Foster said Engram was the best WR coach in the country. Then there is the accustations of shady stuff which we won't dive into.

    Anyway, if we are being honest with ourselves, it may not have mattered how hard they recruited him. The program of Bama won out. If you can count as "recruiting for Bama" as a skill then, yes, they did it better.

  • Are you being serious? I honestly don't remember. If I did, I certainly didn't "know" that, it was my opinion.

    Edit... Found it. Said he is probably going to osu...48 days ago when bob posted he was visiting osu.

    This post was edited by Wh4p 19 months ago

  • I was just busting your balls. I just remember you talking to someone and them telling you that DJ was going to OSU. Whatever, like I said, just messing around.

  • Nick, I do not disagree with anything you just said. I have been a fan since I was 8 , undergrad since 1959, I saw my first Pitt game in 1947, my dad was a big fan and I got the fever from him. I just look at things from a different perspective and leave my loyalties out of it. I t would please me no end to see Foster change up and end up at Pitt, but like you said, we have to offer more than mediocrity and coaching carousels. I do think we are on the right track now, Long retired now but during my time, I have been associated with some really well educated folks that came from schools that are looked down on as to the quality of their degrees, , Have also worked with some ivy league degrees that left me shaking my head as to how they spent their time in school. I have to laugh at some of the posts we see on our board that denigrates another school. Lets hope that one day, we reach the status of success as we see with the bama's and buckeyes, and now the Irish.

    This post was edited by JohnstownJim 19 months ago