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Why didn't they release the financial aspect of this deal? Form your own conclusions..
even normally reasonable posters whos opinions I value (gibby, pitt engineer 75, marley garcia) see this as what it is.
Dude you are joke please stop.
Guys, PITT is exactly the type of nondescript football program where first-time coaches get their chances.
These hires are completely indicative of where we are in the grand scheme of college football. Almost every time we hire a rookie who has no experience or we hire guys on the downward side of their career slope.
Chryst, House and Palermo fit this model - as did Harris and DW before them. Do we really believe that any other organization was going to give Wannstedt another shot at being a Head Coach after his track record? When in the world have we ever had a 'splash' hire in the last 75 years? Graham? Not really. But this latest round of decisions is Foge Fazio Part Deux.
It's not hard to figure out what happened here - we just had a thread discussing it two days ago. Please, let's not kid ourselves any longer about the intent of the University when it comes to the football program. The sole reason we have a BCS program at all is because every other "big" university has a one, with the exception of the Ivy League schools. It's like if you don't the rest of the college world looks down their noses at you.
You wonder why SP is still our AD? It is because he does his job exactly the way the administration wants it done - on the cheap and now the safest way possible. PITT's approach to winning seasons is "Hey, wouldn't that be great if that happens? Man, I would really like that!".
Here's a secret - PITT didn't give as much of a damn about the Haywood & Graham fiasco's as they did about the negative publicity of the players getting in trouble and the issuance of that SI article back in '10. Its OK to be a mediocre football program for 30 years- but to be one with its dirty laundry being aired in public? This must stop!!
Their reaction to that and the HC debacles of 2011 was to hire the Boy Scout who lives next door and who you know won't take any risks that may backfire. Paul Chryst seems to be a nice guy. Really, he does. But he also seems to be the type of guy that sooner or later becomes the head of the local Rotary Club.
Ah well, we'll see how this shakes out - and regardless of what Matt House says about "surprises" we'll see exactly the same type of defense we saw last season.
This post was edited by rkohberger 14 months ago
What you said was sad but mostly true.
I wonder how long they can keep this model up. Looking back I think they actually got lucky with Walt and DW having the modest success they did. At some point they are going to risk hitting a Paul Hackett type period where they have extended awful teams. They'll have trouble attracting the rats down at heinz
I just have a hard time reconciling this approach when you see programs like Boise, cinci and tcu have so much success.
A "Real PITT MAN"............get off my porch!
What's sad is that I really don't know what the answer is for PITT football when it comes to having a sustained winning program.
I'm not sure anyone does other than having the idea of paying huge sums of money for an established winner of a HC. But we all recognize the drawbacks PITT football has to deal with; PSU, WVU, OSU being so close; being a 4th choice for attending sporting events by the population, having a city who has many other attractions to spend money on, etc...
But first and foremost PITT alumni and the local population are really fair weather friends when it comes to PITT football. With almost any other school which has the type of football tradition that PITT has the alumni and regular fans are rabid about the football program. It is like the circle of life - winning begets emotional and financial support which sustains winning which...
I love PITT football and truth be told these types of things don't worry me all too much because - as I have said a million times on here - I understand just where PITT football stands in the grand scheme of things with both the university and myself. I care about the kids on the roster and get very excited when they do well on and off the field and I want the football program to fit into and reflect the rest of the good qualities the University of Pittsburgh has which are substantial.
I wasn't kidding yesterday when I floated the thought that PITT could downgrade football sometime in the distant future and if that would happen in my lifetime I wouldn't shoot myself in the head when it did. When I was growing up in the Shadyside/Squirrel Hill area I went to live football games almost every weekend in the fall - either PITT games or Carnegie Tech games and I'll say that I got equal enjoyment from both of them... maybe even more from the Tech games because there was so little pressure and emphasis on winning - it was truly a sport for them and that made it just plain fun.
I mean just look at the faces and reactions of the fans leaving Heinz Field after a PITT loss. Either people look like they are dying or wanting to beat someone up. That isn't what this is supposed to be about. Being a fan of a team means that you choose to spend your time and money in an enjoyable fashion because it gives you pleasure. Personally I enjoy watching the practices even more than the games because to get to see and hear the coaches and players at the human level instead of characters playing in a huge stadium far from you.
Even on these boards we have posters who are so adamant about their POV that they alienate others who are here for the pleasure of talking PITT football with other fans. Nothing wrong with strong opinions, obviously I have some myself, but there is a line not to cross IMO.
Anyway, I'm on a rant and will step off the soapbox now. We'll live through this head scratcher and we'll be surprised and interested in many things from now until next January just like we are for every season of PITT football.
You're right...I was thinking about stopping and now after your words wisdom i will. Now, i must come to the realization that the glorious kitchenman 66 thinks I am a "joke".
Well put, Reed.
Reed, It's poor decision after poor decision that compound the problem. I agree, the administration doesn't care. When you have limited resources, you have to make good decisions.... not just take the cheap route and hope it works out.
We're now sitting on a lame duck chancellor and a lame duck AD. They just proved again that nothing is going to change.
You can't blame the fans for lack of support when the administration doesn't give a hoot.
I'm so glad I don't watch games with you, as I assume you are w/r/t me. You have no passion, you're self-loathing about your favorite team, and you have no expectations. You like watching practice more than games, Carnegie more than Pitt, and wouldn't care if the program was downgraded.
How anyone could feel ANY of the above is beyond me.
But, hey, to each their own.
the Pitt administration is what has alienated fans - not just the performance on the field.
keeping stevie p - and basically giving the fans the big F U we don't care what you think - is not only arrogant but is failure as a strategy.
nobody is saying bowing to every whimsical need the fans want but the Pitt Admin just simply has no idea how to run a top flight sports dept.
its not just the investment in the product - but its also how to market, branding, operations (ticketing and parking), tradition, you name it....stevie p basically sux across the board...which means nordy sux across the board in sports management.
so until these guys are gone - we will continue to be what we are.
but fans will come back to the program - like me - once stevie p is gone.
Passion and mindlessness are two different things. You can be passionate and still keep your brain working. You can have expectations, but keep them reasonable.
Expectations are especially interesting, as a standard Pitt fan move (not anybody in particular) is to say: "WE ARE GOING TO WIN 15 GAMES THIS YEAR. THERE IS NOT EXCUSE NOT TO WIN 15 GAMES THIS YEAR. IF WE FAIL TO WIN 15 GAMES THIS YEAR, I AM GOING TO VISIT RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVILLE." I should note that, by the looks of it on the boards, RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVILLE is really nice this time of year.
Folks have got to be reasonable, not all fake-alpha-male-ish.
EDIT: To respond to SP's point: no, it's not fully germane to what you were getting at. I'm just saying that passion and expectations, like anything else, should be reasonable. But they should be there, and your initial question was about existence. So, point taken.
This post was edited by shruggs 14 months ago
It's not Reed's fault. A lifetime working for the government will do this to people.
Right, but none of that was relevant to my point.
I'm far from delusional (I don't think Pitt is nearly an elite program), I'm hardly gung-ho about us winning every game (I'm usually considered 'too negative' - whatever that means), and I try to use my brain when discussing Pitt.
I'm talking about actually, you know, liking to watch their games, preferring them over Carnegie Tech, preferring having them in the ACC as opposed to DII. That isn't being overly passionate or fake-alpha-male-is (again, whatever that means). That is being pretty reasonable and not asking for much, in my eyes.
Right---didn't mean to imply that I was singling you out. But a lot of folks mistake unfettered passion for good management. Not you. Just some folks. Sorry about that.
Understood. And, I agree.
I disagree, unfortunately. Just where would this "heat" come from? Pitt? Unlikely. The Pittsburgh media? Doubtful - they've served up more soft balls than "The King and His Court."
Some posts on a couple of different fan message boards? We should all know by now that has no impact on effecting change with Pitt athletics, particularly the football program.
The athletic department is largely okay with whatever amount of blind followers walk through the turnstiles on Saturdays and do little if anything to appease or excite their die hard fans like us. However, they know we're hooked and can't do anything about it. So, until there would be some regime change, expect to keep being disappointed and unappreciated.
Let's get another receiver to "Foster the People" like AB!
Reed, I think Gottfried was somewhat of a splash hire by Pitt. He was winning at Kansas, had a very unique offensive approach (until he came to Pitt and it became Iron Head for three yards and a cloud of dust), and was highly regarded by both college and NFL football people as a real up and comer.
^^^ I was in Washington State and Guam when Gottfried was hired and did his time at PITT so I had zero news about the PITT program. I'll take your word for it.
just wait till matty boy is on the sidelines and pitt is getting crush by miami or whomever.....the boo birds will be out in force and directed at him.
it was pretty darn ugly under rhoades. i think patterson and hux avoided the cat calls cause frankly they were much better than rhoades.
We lost big to Miami the last time we played and House wasn't anywhere around.
An experienced DC doesn't guarantee anything. We've see a lot of poor defensive play and questionable defensive calls under some very experienced defensive coordinators.
If Pitt's defense does poorly next season, it's Coach Chryst who will take the heat.
You really don't know much about the world of academia do you?
This post was edited by CrazyPaco 14 months ago
Refute the post rather than the poster Paco.
I learned enough about the upper politics of the PITT administration back in the late 60s & early 70s to know that the PITT football program was on very thin ice and it was kept on for the reason above. How do I know - because the Litchfields and my parents knew each other well socially and professionally back in the latter '60s even after he left the chancellorship. My father and I had lots of detailed conversations about PITT football when we were going to every scrimmage/ home game during those years. It was a somewhat prevailing attitude back then.
A lot of the admin and faculty couldn't have cared if the program went away then and I think the truth may be much the same today. If a loss of the football program wouldn't have negative financial and 'reputation' impacts I think PITT would drop it and go a different route. I haven't seen a real financial dedication to championship football or even to the traditions PITT has.
I may be wrong as it is decades later but the fact is that PITT football gets sketchy financial or emotional support even from its alumni living in the tri-state area, little media coverage and scant consideration by the local population as a whole. PITT suffers the slings and arrows around the program in a way that makes me believe that not rocking the boat is more important then winning games in a sustainable way.
We have virtually no ties to our more successful football alumni except a quote now and then from afar; we have a constantly changing 'brand', we have an AD who has made a string of sketchy business and personnel decisions when it comes to the cash cow of athletics and we chose to go off campus, pretty much permanently, to play our football games. All that sends a message to me that - whether or not the reasoning to do the above was sound financially - PITT puts football firmly in the back seat in the overall scheme of things.
Not that that all those decisions bother me that much but it does appear to be the case. You can reel off a string of numbers but the sense, to me, is that what is being done is out of the necessity to have a BCS presence rather than to have a real BCS program.
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