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My intention is not to make this another bash Wanny post but however I say this it is going to come off as a bashing of Dave Wannstedt. It was it is but that is not my intent. But again, it is what it is.
Anyone who is a 5th year Sr, or is in their 4th year (Sr or RS Jr) or is in their 3rd year (Jr or RS Soph) is a Dave Wannstedt recruit. This should be the bedrock of the team, occupying 80% of the two deep. What it indicates is that his last few recruiting classes were incredibly overrated. Some guys out and out busts. Others underachievers, others question marks at best. Aaron Donald and up until yesterday K'wan Williams looked like the exceptions. Some like Dan Mason had bad injuries. The OLine is totally Wanny's guys.
And as someone pointed out that vaunted class that was blown up by the Wanny firing hasn't really materialized yet on this level. What am I trying to say here?? Well we had endless post after endless post when Wanny took over for Walt that Wanny didn't inherit alot of talent because his recruiting dropped off (and it did), and you got to give Wanny a chance to bring his players in. To "run faster".
Paul Chryst is being given no such chance. Which comes back to my comments that if Dave Wannstedt was named Dave Wallace and was from Baltimore and played at Maryland instead of Baldwin and Pitt people wouldn't have been willing to give him 3 years like that. Wanny got many free passes because of who he was.
But think about it, most of you who are criticizing our talent was celebrating it 2-3 years ago. And you both are right. On paper, alot of these kids looked like potential stars. 3 years later, you wonder how they were recruited. The biggest criticism comes from the lack of OL talent and depth. Which IMO, is where the WPIAL has fallen off the most in the last 25 years. There just aren't enough big, athletic and talented linemen around here.
I noticed not alot of play to this post.
Kind of hits home to alot of you who want to blame everything on Pederson and him firing Wanny.
Gary nova is quarterbacking a top 20 football team. Bill belton is the starting rb on a decent psu team. Kyshon jarrett will be an all-acc player. The lb from new jersey played as a freshmen at Iowa. Poteat gets carries for a ranked cinci team. Not to mention some of the other kids are playing on ranked teams or teams with better depth, they may very well be playing here.
Here are a couple things to remember that cannot be disputed but are facts.
1. Wannstedt coached our first double digit win total in over 30 years.
2. 27-12 with two bowl wins was our best 3 year stretch in over 30 years.
That's why I give him a "free pass" once and awhile. I wonder if wannstedt passed the ball 50 times a game and made comments like "high octane" if he would have been given more respect.
I don't think you know what would've happened if those same players were coached by the same coaches, and in the same system since December 2010. They've basically thrown away years of development with this circus they call Pitt football.
I don't think Pitt is stacked with talent by any means, but you don't know who would've developed further in the same system. As wh4p stated, you're also not counting any of the 2011 class that might have contributed, possible JUCO lineman, or even 2012 freshman.
I bunch of who really knows and speculation. Perfect for a message board.
It's not the firing of Wannstedt that was the problem. It was doing so without a plan in place & the cluster**** that followed, including 3 head coaches & 2 complete 180's in philosophy in 2 years.
Who really cares. Do you think Nuttingberg has ever critically evaluated the program ? Ever. Do you think he gives a flying f if we win or lose? No. Do you think he is happy playing the Nutting of college football. Nice check from the league and/revenue sharing and an empty stadium. Wake up Owt. He cares no more about Pitt football than your interest in PSUfootball.
Is it safe to assume that 100% of your posts from here on out are going to be about "Nuttingberg?" Owt made a nice post about actual football, yet your obsessions with the Chancellor prevents you from responding about the actual football team.
Greg, can we please do something about this? I don't think 800 threads a day moaning and groaning about SP and Nordy is going to benefit the growth of this site as a place to discuss actual things that happen on the field.
Regarding Wh4P's post, a few replies:
1: Gary Nova looks like a loss, but I am not so certain he would be as productive right now for Pitt, because I'm skeptical of whether or not he would have developed to the point where he'd be an impact player right now.
2: No disagreements from me that Belton and Jarret would be big players for Pitt to have right now.
3: Outside of those two guys, did we really miss out on anyone that would be a significant upgrade over what we have now? Would Poteat be a significant upgrade over Isaac Bennett? I can't imagine Poteat would be getting any more carries over Shell and Graham. The same can be said for Huggins. Has he done ANYTHING at Rutgers yet?
I won't dispute that we missed out on some good players, but I don't think we missed out on that many high impact guys that would make a significant difference come time to play in the ACC.
But Walt Harris had essentially the same record (remember Wanny's teams played all 12 game schedules) in a MUCH tougher conference then.
So honestly, if this is the sole reason for wanting Wanny to remain as a coach, it is invalid.
Nova might be a loss, but who knows if he would be playing ahead of Tino, a 5th year SR who would be in his 5th year for this program. And Nova is not confusing anyone with Geno Smith.
Bill Belton is a starting RB on a decent PSU team. Okay....he would be 3rd string RB here. He would be more at WR. Still, not like he is Larry Fitzgerald.
Kysheon Jarrett is a loss no doubt. He is the one guy, but our corners haven't been horrid until last week with K'wan being hurt.
Poteat? Would luck to be 3rd string here.
Iowa LB? You can't even remember his name he has made such an impact.
Last point on "ranked teams". Dude, Rutgers is not exactly Alabama. I am not discounting this, I would think a guy like Marquis Wright might have some PT here, but let's face it, Shayne Hale, Tyrone Ezell, Brian Murphy, TJ Clemmings all were as regarded as Wright and they are here and not doing much. My point here, that class wasn't exactly the class people thought it was going to be. Which is pretty typical of Wanny's recruiting classes. Speaking of, where is the OL help in that class?
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Walt harris last season we played the easiest schedule in the history of football.
I dont think anyone is pining for Wanny as he had flaws that were maddening as well. However the point is, you dont blow up what you had going to send the program in the dumper to the point where it will take 5 years to get back to the mediocre level of play we were at under DW. Again, any other program in the country and the AD would have been whacked after haymaker and for sure after Graham cracker.
A "Real PITT MAN"............get off my porch!
I always hear this argument, but I don't buy it. In fact, when I researched it, the strength of schedules were not much different. So, it's really just your opinion.
You had Miami and VT, a couple doormats in Temple and Rutgers, and then a bunch of mediocre teams. The OOC schedule wasn't anything to hang your hat on either. Sorry, playing Miami and a couple good VT teams doesn't make your schedule MUCH tougher.
They were pretty equal, same as the coaches. We'd be better of if neither were fired.
You really think that was easier than Wanny's last year? Come one. And even so, the two previous years DWARFED anything that Wanny had to deal with. The Big East was like the 3rd best football conference then.
Yes. See gibbys post.
Not really, and they were ranked the 8th best conference in 2004. They're actually pretty similar.
Jeff Sagarin has been providing ratings for USA TODAY since 1985. This page features Sagarin ratings from past years as fat back as they are available digitally.
This post was edited by GibsoniaPanther 18 months ago
Gibby, honestly do you believe that Sagarin stuff? The problem with that is since the Big East has fewer teams, it is influenced more both good and bad by a great or not so great team. Look at who was "best" in 2003???
In addition, ND was much better than Wanny's last 3 years.
One other thing....I looked at the 1st and 2nd rd draft picks for the Big East following the 2002 and 2003 seasons vs 2008 and 2009.
That is 40.
That is 17.
By the way.....to examine the Sagarin ratings...he had the Big East as the 2nd best conference in 2009. He had them as the 6th best in 2002. Anyone believe this?
I don't know owt, it's an objective ranking rather than your opinion.
As for Notre Dame....were they really better? I'd say they were worse.
2000 no game
Seriously, this rememberence of the grand Wlat days is like the fishing story.... where the fish keeps getting bigger and bigger each year the story is told. The Big East was NEVER a power conference in football. That's why teams couldn't wait to leave.
Whoa.....dude......I am not a Wlat lover and was calling for a change before there was one because recruiting was falling and he seemed to have lost his enthusiasm. As for Wanny, I could have lived with another season, but also understood the firing. So...I am not siding with one over the other just for the sake of doing it because I liked one over the other.
But that being said, some people act like Walt was horrible and Wanny inherited such a mess, it took 4 years to just get to a bowl. That is also untrue.
I really think the careers of Wlat and Wanny are similar. But let's look at two things:
1) The comment of Wanny's greatest 3 year run since Jackie as some sort of badge of honor, he won exactly ONE more game than Wlat did during that era.
2) No matter how it happened, when Wlat was presented with having to win a game with a BCS bowl bid on the line, his team beat a favored WVU team.
Like I said I was not the greatest Wlat fan, but I think history has proven out that he was not that bad of a coach. Wanny was. Wanny had much more material and could not do anything with it. And when the big game was on the line, his team spit the bed.
I said this in 2008, if Dave Wannstedt was named Dave Williams and was from Baltimore instead of Baldwin and Maryland instead of Pitt, no way would he have had the support he had.
That being said, I wanted it to work. THAT was our chance. Our chance of stability. Of having a name coach, a personality. If he could have just hired two young coordinators and not cronies, and if he just got out of the way......it was a perfect situation that unfortunately was executed less than perfectly. If we would have just brought in some good young coaches, have Wanny step back, man...we could have had multiple BCS bowls, some top 10's and being championed as helping the ACC regain some credibility. And combine that with the PSU mess...forget about recruiting in PA. But.........it just didn't happen.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you talking about 1st & 2nd rounders for each year or total draft picks?
Also, do future NFL draft picks now determine how good a college team was?
I agree with most of your post. I've come to appreciate Wlat as time has passed.
I accepted the Wanny firing, reluctantly. Until that baffoon of an AD proceeded to "do his thing" and work towards destroying Pitt football.
In the same sense, I can sit back and appreciate Wanny as time is passing. At least we were losing important games.
Did Wlat have a tougher road to a conference championship (other than 2004)? Absolutely.
Did he play a tougher schedule? No.
Do you know how any of these players would've developed under the old coaches and old system? No.
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