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Would you support it if they went that route?
I would support anything that makes money for the university. That's what it's all about. Football is a means to an end.
Its a dumb discussion. Pitt's not dropping down in football anytime soon. Give it a rest.
Depends on what you mean by support.
If Paco's worst scenario would come to pass & Pitt is left in some leftover conference with no hope of competing for championships/BCS-level bowls, then I would completely understand & could agree with a decision to drop down. However, I would no longer be the least bit interested in attending games or donating to Pitt athletics.
I should add that if Paco's worst scenario should come to pass, I would be completely done with major college athletics. I wouldn't attend any games nor watch them on TV nor participate in any tournament pools or bowl pick 'ems
Kind of agree with this. Id rather see the program be competitive than play in a crap conference with nothing at stake
A "Real PITT MAN"............get off my porch!
Let's hope it doesn't come to pass.
The key to fans of any team in any league at any level is the belief of a fair playing field. The belief that you can compete to be the best. Not that you will be every year, but the possibility exists to work towards that end.
Pitt is in no danger of dropping down any time soon. Despite the sometimes popular belief brought by undeniably justified frustration, Pitt has been very committed to winning athletics. There are realities and poor decisions that work against this, but Pitt's current administration does care. Execution doesn't always reflect intent. We don't need to rehash any more than that.
But from a university perspective, considering the whole of the institution, the existing belief is that athletics are the front porch of the University of Pittsburgh. Pitt has made great strides behind the scenes, in research and academics, in community outreach, all across the board. When you look at purely quantitative rankings that look at things like research funding, publication impact, admissions statistics, etc, Pitt is almost universally regarded, nationally, not as a top 25 to 30 public school, but as a top 25 to 30 school overall. Across the board, in almost any ranking like this, it is where Pitt typically falls out. Yes, that is built on the back of its health sciences, but look at the company Pitt keeps in that field. Now, when you factor in metrics that take into account opinion surveys from academics or guidance councilors, etc, the ranking drops precipitously under what you expect by the actual measures of quality that other rankings focus on. Why? Reputation takes time to build. Pitt's name is not that widely known in academia. It's not that widely known in the general public. Pitt wants to be a top national research university. It wants its name out there. Athletics is the best way to do that. Football is the best way to do that in athletics. It is committed to competing at the highest level, and dropping to FCS would undermine that.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by CrazyPaco 17 months ago
People will not let that happen....Trust me
Thank you Paco. Exactly.
Make mo money.
If anything, every school is fighting and scratching to get into the FBS landscape (not away from it). UMASS, UT-San Antonio, etc come to mind. All willing to throw caution to the wind to get a slice (however small) of the FBS pie and in return, gain exposure.
These schools know they have no prayer of winning any national titles. Its not about that. Its about exposure, gaining more applicants, increasing academic profile (i.e. more applications and raising tuition) as a result.
College football is the perfect marketing tool just for that purpose alone.
That's an aspect that is often lost. Beyond the intangibles of a bigger profile for the school, I read a report a couple years ago where FCS programs are even worse off financially than mid-major FBS ones. FCS teams are absolutely trying to move up.
If it should come to pass...
1. As I said, I will be completely done with major college athletics. That means that I will drop my season tickets & cease to donate, regardless of what level Pitt participates at. I honestly believe that would be what is best for Pitt. The only way to stop this monster is to stop feeding it. Though I wish Pitt well, I am not an alumnus. I have no real ties to the university other than being a fan of its athletics.
2. Perhaps dropping down would be the best thing for Pitt. Otherwise, its reputation will be small-time, think Boise St or a MAC school. Perhaps it could make a statement about de-emphasizing athletics for academics & try to join the Ivy League or the Patriot League. They are all well regarded schools despite not playing 1-A football.
I never said or thought that it will, my thinking is along the lines of spirt76. If we are left out of an automatic qualifying conference and our payouts are dramatically less, what's the point of competing at D1?
If the choices are...
going 7-5 every year in Conf. USA
going 10-2 and going to the playoffs every year in a league with Lehigh and Colgate
...I'd take the Patriot league or whatever it is.
I also don't think it would hurt the institution academics-wise at all. Those are fantastic schools.
Then again, its always bothered me that research seems to have become a way to overrated measure of a schools worth. In my travels, those schools provide a much better product in terms of the quality of its graduates than schools like Pitt/Michigan/Wiscy/Md.
Plus, I grew up watching small-college football. I personally think its much better than the half-azzed "big time" in lower-case letters product Pitt has been shoveling for 30 years.
Better go route for someone else then cause Pitt aint dropping down to the Patriot League.
Worse yet, going 11-1 or 10-2 in Conference USA & being relegated to some crap bowl every year.
Those schools are great but they are largely liberal arts schools. Research is one component of universities. It is true when you look at the ranking you have to examine their methodology and metrics. Research being used as a ranking component for an overall institution really doesn't mean that research is a measure of quality of undergrads as much, say, the the size of undergrad component of the school and the range of students those schools take in. Lehigh and Colgate are much more selective than any of those bigger research schools, and thus, on average, their students are more academically adept from teh start. But I guarantee those liberal arts focused schools aren't produce better researchers or PhDs, and those are also students, just more advanced ones. It just isn't as big of a part of their mission, although Lehigh does have PhD programs. If schools have significant undergrad research components like Pitt is pushing, I'd also bet they aren't producing better or more experienced techs and bachelor level researcher assistant types as well. It depends what fields you are looking for. But if you want a better guarantee of quality from a school like Pitt, just recruit from Pitt's honors college. The freshman admission statistics for Pitt Honors is better than half the Ivy.
But for as much of a problem as Pitt has with name recognition, schools like Lehigh, Bucknell, and Lafayette have it much worse off. Outside the Northeast, would anyone know about Villanova or Providence if they weren't in a major conference? No.
PITT won't drop down anytime soon but it will be interesting to see what happens when the lease tying PITT to Heinz Field runs out or when Heinz Filed comes to the end of it's serviceability.
I'm of the mind that PITT football may be a whole different animal 30 years or so from now.
In 30 years? Things are moving so fast! The current climate and financial constructs molding college athletics did not exist even 5-10 years ago and may be obsolete in another 5-10 years. Stadiums like Heinz that were built 10 years ago are already obsolete and ones built today may be obsolete in 5-10 years. In 30 years there is likely to be 2-3 more paradigm shifts in college sports. The NCAA may not exist. Who knows?
I see one way to avoid being carried away by every current that happens to wash over the landscape. Pitt must do something they have never adequately done, make a decision about what we want to be and who we are. We aren't public and yet we aren't private. We aren't a state school or a local, regional school. Are we a national school? If so, what's our national market? We aren't an eastern school. We aren't a midwestern school. What are we? Who are our peers? Where do we belong? We have very little in common with our athletic rivals, ND. PSU and WVU. All of them are quickly drifting away. Most schools in our geographic area are MAC-type schools. Most schools seem to be elite in athletics and average in academics or vice versa. We are good in academics and irrelevent in athletics. Pitt is in a word...nondescript (pardon the script reference).
We have not had an effective vision for a long time in many ways. We are having our destiny dictated to us. We need to ask these questions and get them answered or we will always be where we're at now.....wondering how we got here.....worrying about where we're going.
Falcone, that's what i've been saying all along. A lot of us have been saying it .. but not in so many words. It's like this .. Pitt has publicly addressed the issue of WHAT THEY ARE. Pederson is the one who i believe can be quoted as saying "we are not a win-at-all-cost school." OK .. fine .. that's it. We're not in it to win it. So why is it so shocking that we don't win in football and are so AT RISK for being left behind in future realignment??? We deserve to be left behind .. because the ones who are invited to the table are all win-at-all-cost programs. Either that or they are just very lucky. Pitt got lucky with the ACC .. but if the ACC implodes then we need to get lucky again. If you WIN the fu##ing games then you don't need luck. Pitt's problem is their vision conflicts with reality.
So the stadium becomes obsolete in 30 years.????? By whose calculations other than Ambassador Rooney. Theera of building new stadiumsis over. WE AS A NATION ARE BANKRUPT. THOSE DAYS ARE GONE
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