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The "true fans" that quit coming to games because they don't get the right font on the helmet don't help pay for jack POOP, and frankly, justifiably lost their right to have their voice heard by anyone.
The truth is, most people don't care about logos and uniforms. They want wins. Pitt needs to stop switching logos. Period. It needs consistent branding, period, from top to bottom of the institution, whatever that becomes; script, block or wingding. Don't give me BS about UCLA does this or someone does that. Pitt isn't UCLA, and that isn't because of any choice of logos.
But to address sophisticated... you are talking about fonts. Script is a font that is a stylized version of the signature of British Prime Minister William Pitt, Earl of Chatham. That is less sophisticated than block lettering in an arch? It's a font. My lord.
If you don't like Pitt trying to better itself academically, thinking that is some sort of elitist snobbery, than stop cheering for Pitt and start cheering for schools like Boise State or West Virginia. Pitt is a university first, and damn good one that has worked itself up to the 11th biggest R&D university in the nation and a top 20 public school, and it is still climbing. That's is the university's primary job: to be as good of an educator and facilitator of ground breaking research as possible, which is for the massive benefit of Pittsburgh and the region. And Pitt needs to get that message out, about how good it is, because that reputation lags big time behind where it actually is as an institution. Sports is part of that mission, but it does not supersede it. If a genie could grant Pitt to become a Cambridge or Harvard by dropping football, it damn well should take that deal. Luckily, it doesn't have to be one or the other, as Stanford and Michigan show. But people equating fonts of logos on a freakin football helmet with academic elitism are so far out of touch with reality, it probably isn't worth discussing further in the first place.
This post has been edited 6 times, most recently by CrazyPaco 16 months ago
I think Ghost probably knows this. Others as well. For an institution that has often treated big time football success as a unwanted case of the crabbies, the Pitt Script is a recognizable symbol of this school's prior football prowess. That's also a major reason why it's kept in the background. It has little to do with the 90's. Plenty of national programs have had their own protracted down periods and kept their traditions in a game that's built on them. It's something they'd just as soon stay away from.
Unfortunately, the decision is not Steve's alone. There has been, under Nordenberg's tenure, an attempt to reengineer the program into something more palatable to some of the strange constituencies that comprise that institution. Up to this point, it hasn't worked. My guess is a new, young, talented, and PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED AD (not the empty suit we have now) will need to come in here when the U leadership changes(naturally) and try to effectively meld what's been done, with the immense value of Pitt's football tradition and finally get everyone on the same page. Until that occurs, that gorgeous design will remain carefully in the rear with the gear.
I find it odd that McKillop would consider this some kind of joke though?
With all due respect, I think you are guilty of the classic internet false argument. By exaggerating to the extreme you have created a straw man which is easily disproved.
Of course you're not talking about "@MrSportsFan#1." That person will know who you are no matter whether you call it Pitt or Pittsburgh, whether they go 11-1 or 1-11. That demographic is relatively small & is likely already tied to a particular program, whether it's Pitt or someone else. The "average Joe Schmoe" is a very large demographic. However, you're likely to get many 1st generation immigrants who are enthralled with futbol not football, women & people who simply don't care about college sports. That demographic will probably never watch a game, let alone buy "gear" or season tickets. What they should be targeting is the group in the middle - casual to moderate college sports (especially football) fans. I'd bet those people know who "Pitt" is & those who are old enough to remember them, could identify Pitt football by the 70's - 80's uniforms.
Of course "Pitt" is not as entrenched as those schools you mentioned. You mentioned 7 schools with very strong identities - 3 football powerhouses, 2 basketball blue-bloods & 2 of the nation's most renown academic institutions. "Pitt" is at least as well known as the next level of schools - Miami, Clemson, Michigan St, etc...
Paco, you are twisting my words to fit a bunch of rediculous straw men that don't exist.
I actually agree with nearly everything you said. Maybe I offended you or you are taking my post too personally for some reason.
I don't think anyone ever turned away from Pitt because of a font and if they did, you are right....not a true fan BUT the font issue is a very clear indicator that the folks that care, that would otherwise be paying the bills are not respected by the decision makers. The script thing is very symbolic to many people of many issues IMO.
Maybe you don't understand why different fonts exist but yes, they infact do represent different things. There are entire professions based on such things.
Finally, there is a big difference between wanting to further Pitt academically which is a noble undertaking and being elitest and lording yourself over others as superior. Who gives you the right to be so arrogant towards Boise and WVU? There are many fine folks associated with both Universities and many idiots that passed through Pitt. When did pride become a virtue in this culture? As I said, I'm grateful to be a Pitt alumnus and I have great affection for the school but judging folks by where they went to school or making sweeping generalizations about folks in such a silly way strikes me as wrong and I think that is what leads to so much stupid animosity between people.
In ski's defense, there is no reason why both can't be used. See Ucla and my comments about a new professionally trained AD to maximize all the inherent value in both logos, with respects either of the two major sports. Takes talent and leadership ... and a new versatile personality to work with whoever the Chancellor is.
There are idiots at Ivy Leagues and the are geniuses at community colleges. No one disagrees with that reality.
But academia lives on a model of perception. A model that relies on people paying a premium for perception. A model where the greatest proportion (1/4) of the most influential determinant of consumer choice is straight up perception. If you are in the business of higher education and aren't pushing your perception, you're in the wrong game. Right or not, that is the reality of the extremely competitive higher education sector and it isn't going away. In fact, it is getting worse because money is more scarce, competition is more fierce, academic recruiting is more (inter)national, and published rankings more prevalent than ever. Academic bias is real, and it can have real effects, particularly in certain fields, and particularly in academia.
Does that mean that it is right to demean someone because of the institution degree? Of course not. If one does, keep in mind there are people in Ivies that disrespect Pitt as much as someone from Pitt might disrespect WVU. But it isn't always just perception, there are real difference between schools and their priorities and missions. Just as WVU will never be Pitt because of its mission to educate the entire impoverished state of WV, Pitt will never be Yale because of its semi-public mission to Western PA. Colleges are not all created equally. That's reality.
But if people are going to throw up success in athletics as some benchmark of institutional worth, then there is no reason they shouldn't get a dose of academic achievement right back, after all, we are still talking and debating about schools. You think Harvard cares if it can't beat Pitt on a football field? Guess what, I feel the same way about Pitt beating Boise State because Pitt means so much more to me, and to the world, than football. Keep in mind, these latter things are, after all, the equivalent of bar room arguments as someone pointed out previously.
This post has been edited 4 times, most recently by CrazyPaco 16 months ago
The Pitt Script is a symbol is more than a font. Anyone who thinks its just a font isnt thinking.
Either way, Stevie P has long proven to be the worst marketer Pitt has ever seen and it will be a glorious day when's gone.
Do you really think in today's economy that a hiring manager is going to pay someone more because they went to school X vs school Y? Or even give the job to someone because they went to school X over school Y?
The name on your paper doesn't carry as much weight as it did 20 years ago....hiring managers want quality workers on the cheap because they have incredibly tight budgets. With companies STILL laying off people like crazy, quality workers are unemployed all over the place. The name on your paper is more of a talking piece for the getting to know you section of an interview vs actually being a piece of criteria you'll be judged by. What university you went to might be like 10th on the list of criteria when comparing 2 qualified candidates.
I'm not sure how true this is.....how does ND pull out their Green jersey's every now and then for big games?
I wonder if they wear them against Bama for the NC game?
This post was edited by PhPanther1 16 months ago
Wrong .. it's just a font. And the colors? So what. Big deal if we wear a shade of gold that looks like baby poop. It's a color. Get over it. There is no symbolism to see here .. move along.
"Sundays Sold Out, Saturdays Aren't ......Yet", "Panthers Strike Force", "My City, My Panthers".
So when the Chargers wear the Baby Blues it doesn't catch everyone's eye? Or when ND wears the green jerseys?
Marketing and branding matters. If it didn't matter then Oregon would still be wearing these. I don't agree with the crazy crap they wear, but they have created a buzz and sell a lot more gear than they did prior.
Polarization has now reached a level at which those that agree about wanting Script Pitt are failing to understand one another's sarcasm. Quite frankly, I would prefer a switch to Script Pitt, but I'm not going to give up my sarcasm to get us there. A man must have his principles.
More seriously: it's possible to believe (1) it's just a font, and (2) still want Script Pitt all else being equal. But given the level of religious devotion that's going on with it, every day that goes by without a switch back to Script Pitt is a damnable offense. Don't you think that's kind of weird?
I LIKE CHOCOLATE MILK
Hail to Pitt.
Too many calories. I'd rather waste the calories on beer or wine.........
Also, steel would be happy to let you know that chocolate milk is an ideal post-workout recovery drink, as it has the optimal 4:1 carbohydrate-to-protein ratio your body needs to get back in shape. He's a big chocolate milk advocate.
I think it's all a cruel joke by Stevie.
Fact: The bowl game is Jan. 5, 2013.
Fact: The Mayan calendar ends in December 2012.
Stevie: "You Script Pitt fans can have your way. The next game uni will be exactly what you want. Except, THE WORLD WILL HAVE ALREADY COME TO AN END!!!"
Fun Fact: Stevie still wins.
I just spoke to a buddy of mine who was at the complex last week and he said the buzz was that we were gonna wear the old uni's if we got to a bowl game. He said he asked an individual and he got the nod and smile that told him it was for real.
Based on the color of the photo, that is Marino era Old/Mustard Gold so they can't wear that with the pale gold pants. So a whole new uniform has to be ordered. It would have been easy to just put stickers & stripes on the current helmet.
So if they are doing it, I give them credit for going the extra mile to do it right. I just hope the jerseys are not neon blue. They should be somewhere closer to our current blue or just slightly lighter.
I will know by Friday for sure, if some announcement does not come sooner.
This post has been edited 10 times, most recently by GhostOfPitt4014 16 months ago
Says who? You? Yeah ok. You are an expert brand marketer I can tell.
Its not just a color, its not just a font. Its a freakin trademarked logo. Its a direct symbol of Pitt and at one time - the Pitt football program.
I will never move on and neither will the Pitt fanbase...sorry Stevie P.
So a powerful program like Florida changed their helmets?!?!?!
HAHA .. i don't mind shruggs. It's kinda fun. If this is actually going to happen then i might drive 11 hours to the game by myself and sarcastically rag on the uniforms the entire game.
Ok .. pause .. I LOVE THE SCRIPT .. and hate the baby poop gold and the stupid block Pitt with the arch (which confuses the crap outta me on ESPN's scoreboard webpage because it looks like TCU's arch/block font). Seriously, how many times have you guys thought it was Pitt but turned out to be TCU? No more sarcasm for me apparently .. Goodness gracious.
on another note......Wh4p pretty much nails it with the subject line....LOL...Three pages and counting
Yep .. they changed it when they sucked and started winning and then never messed with it again .. and never de-emphasized the program .. etc etc.
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