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Just to piss everyone off:.. Let's compare three PITT QBs' stats at this point in time.
Sunseri needs 377 yards (189 ypg) in the last two games to pass Palko on the all-time PITT passing yardage list and sit at #3. He will live in infamy!!! Don't think he'll get the 631 yards needed to pass Marino though unless we get a bowl which is doubtful at this point.
However Sunseri's career QB rating of 132.72 is higher than Marino's 127.73 but both are surpassed by Palko's 140.80.
Sunseri's YPA is equal to Marino's at 7.1. Palko beats both at 7.8 YPA.
Sunseri's completion rate (72%) is near the top of the list of PITT QBs behind only Priestly at 80%. Palko comes in at 60.00% and Marino lags behind at 58%.
Sunseri's 44 TDs puts him #5, Palko is #2 at 66 and Marino tops the chart at 79.
Sunseri's 22 INTs results in a current .023% INT /attempt rate; Palko's (25 INTs) matches that .023% and Marino (69 INTs) comes in at .057%.
Following in that line - Sunseri's TD/INT % is .50%; Palko's is best at .38% and Marino's is .87%
This post was edited by rkohberger 17 months ago
Further evidence to that oldest of truisms: Plako is Gdo.
Reed, I was going to post something associated with this in the next day or so. Well not Tino specific, but how college football's offensive numbers are on steroids. Look at just last week. Landry Jones passed for 554 yards and 6TD's. Tavon Austin rushed for 344 yards and had almost 600 yards himself in total offense. Mike Glennon of NC State had over 500 yards passing and 5TD's. Tahj Boyd had 425 yards passing for Clemson. That game contained a 500 yard passer, a 400 yard passer, 4 100 yard rushers, 1 200 yard receiver and 4 100 yard receiver. IN ONE GAME! And here's the deal...no one even blinks at this anymore.
That is just two games from one week. We have seen numbers like this all the time. It is getting more and more outrageous each year. Even the SEC puts up points now. LSU gave up 35 to Ole Miss at home, and won because they score 42. Again, same week.
And this is not even looking at the WVU/Baylor game. I am in a College Fantasy Football League. I have Geno Smith, Nick Flanagan (Baylor) as my QB's. Stedman Bailey as one of my WR's. Some WAC RB's who put up mad numbers each week. So I follow these stats more closely than I used to. It is mindboggling.
So now the preemptive Tino strike. Please don't talk about how underrated he was based on the numbers. Willie Stargell never hit 50 HR's, Brady Anderson did.
I don't think he's underrated at all. His stats obviously don't back up a very successful career. I do this just to twit the Sunseri-haters' noses.
But.... There was talk on here a while ago about the 'difference' in college ball between Marino's era and today so I looked at some things...
Marino played in 44 games and had 1204 pass attempts for 27.3 attempts per game. Sunseri has played in 40 games so far and has had 1045 attempts for a 26.1 attempts per game average. Marino threw more than Sunseri has.
Palko threw even less with 24.4 attempts per game.
But - Alex Van Pelt threw 32.6 times a game and had an astonishing 13.0 ypa average. I was overseas when he played and only saw him once or twice on TV but what I remember about him was how well he sold the play action pass - like a magician.
When Pitt finally changes back to the script and our real colors, I'm gonna mothball my Palko throwback jersey and start wearing a Tino "throwback" jersey just to piss everyone off.
Shows how much stats mean. Tino couldn't carry either of their jocks.
I've always stood behind the fact that QB rating in college is overhyped when determining if a QB is talented or not. But, it's hard to justify that a guy is playing "bad" when his rating is good.
One thing DW said when looking at coaches tape when determining how good a QB is looking at TD's vs Int's. It sounds really simple but it's the truth.
I judge a QB by a few things in terms of how good/bad he is..
1. How do DC's defend him?
2. How is the offense constructed with regards to his ability?
4. Talent around him.
And DW sucked at evaluating QBs so it just solidifies even further my belief that INTs are overemphasized. However, TDs do count for quite a bit. But .. everytime a team punts the ball it's essentially an INT. The key is to play big at crunch time and not throw INTs that FLIP THE FIELD .. i.e. pick sixes and long returns. A great INT% needs to be judged by watching what happens on the field .. all these stats are worthless without the eye test and some common sense. Tino sucks.
This post was edited by Pitt0008mmd 17 months ago
Of course they are worthless... unless you use them to show how great Palko and Marino were. Then they mean something.
Again - just fun with numbers.
Why not wear his 'soon-to-be' NFL jersey?
Sorry .. i just found it absolutely hilarious that Steel is talking about DW's QB evaluation methods. haha
When a team punts the ball it is not essentially a INT. Look at the 2000 Baltimore Ravens. They routinely struggled on offense but they at least flipped the field and put teams in awful positions. If you have a good to great defense, the punt can be a great weapon. Great coaches know that it is often the hidden yardage in games that leads to ultimate success just on probability alone.
Throwing INT's often reverses the field and puts defenses in awful positions. It often results in momentum swings. Throwing picks on your side of the 50 is awful because it takes away scoring chances, results in poor field position, etc. But, most importantly it takes points off the board. Tino has not done this as a senior.
People used to rip on Palko like crazy because he wasn't what they thought he should be. Pete Carroll said that his talent was so great that he could replace Leinhart with Palko and they wouldn't have skipped a beat.
Tino is not a great QB. But, he doesn't suck. He just doesn't have the talent to overcome the lack of talent on offense. He plays within the system and right now the system doesn't have enough horses and playmakers to put the points on the board. Go and watch a game from coaches tape instead of a live broadcast. I did once last year and you saw WR's not getting open, OL/RB's missing blocks, QB's not seeing the hot receiver, etc. It wasn't and hasn't been all on Tino.
What's wrong with "that" assessment? He doesn't buy into the hype of yardage. 90% of the DC's out there will be in agreement with his assessment.
There's a lot that goes into evaluating a QB. But most importantly they have to handle the pressure of a rush. Tino ducks the rush. That should have been obvious in his HS tapes .. no? Turtle mode is an insult to turtles .. that's how bad it gets. The ND game .. oh my lord .. it was painful.
Most QB's who have ice in their veins typically put up great TD to INT #'s. Which leads to great efficiency in the red zone.
On the TOS I asked a simple question. In crunch time, was there more than one time where Tino wasn't getting hit in and around 3 seconds in the ND game.
I also think QB's who get hit early a ton often struggle with seeing and feeling the rush and it kills their development. Tino is an example of this but you often see it in the NFL. David Carr is a great example. Big Ben's development has suffered to an extent because of this as well. Ben has more talent in his pinky than Tino but like Tino, Ben has a bad habit of holding onto the ball and I believe it's been in part due to being hit a ton as a young player. These guys often struggle to process information fast enough to hit the open guy in crunch situations.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by steelcurtain55 17 months ago
Ben makes plays as he's getting hit. Tino covers up and waits for the hit .. or runs slowly in the opposite direction. And he immediately turns his eyes to the rush .. never looks downfield. Ben couldn't be any further from Tino. Apples and oranges. Brian Brohm is the PERFECT example of a kid who put up big numbers because of a great OL and offensive scheme .. with playmakers. Brohm can't hack it in the NFL because he watches the rush. He's a coward. Big numbers don't mean squat.
And i'll add that part of that comes from the inability to process the information quickly .. which is genetic .. nature .. not nurture. So you either GOT IT .. or you don't got it. Pitt needs a guy who GOT IT.
For some reason, this didn't go threw. But I posted that both the collegiate and pro QB rating systems are too skewed with interception and completion % as too high of factors both positive and negative.
If you throw the ball downfield, you are going to have a lower completion rate and higher interception rate. Also, those meaningless hail mary interceptions factor into it as much as a drive killing interception. But here is where I have a real problem with it.
Here's the scenario. You are down 31-27. There is 2:59 left. You have the ball 3rd and 13 on your own 35.
QB A: Throws a 20 yard post pattern that deflects off of the WR's hands and deflects to a safety downfield for an interception. So they get the ball 1st and 10 on their 38.
QB B: Gets happy feet, rush comes, and he dumps the ball off to a RB (ball thrown slightly behind him) who gets tackled for a 2 yard gain. Now you have to punt. And the clock is ticking.
QB B doesn't get nearly as negative rating as QB A, yet what he did was more boneheaded and never had a shot and in the end, likely more damaging to the team's chance of winning. This happens more than you think, and especially with a QB we all know and is fond of his family's foods.
I wish I could see your faces when Tino Sunseri is in an NFL camp come this fall.
Not saying he'll make a team, but I'll put money on it that he is signed to a team for training camp.
Processing information can absolutely be taught.
Look no further than Tommy Maddox and Kurt Warner. Both struggled in that regard while in the NFL. They were both put in the old arena league where you are forced to sink or swim w/ regards to quick decisions. A few years later through that league, they now were known as guys who could anticipate and make plays in chaotic situations.
If you don't think kids can't learn to process information quickly, you probably never got a chance to see the majority of Walt's QB's up close when they were young.
While Joe Flacco is no Peyton Manning, he is night and day to what he was when he was here with regards to quick thinking.
Here is what you're completely taking out of context.
You are graded as a QB based on:
1. The play called
2. The defense ran
3. The down/distance/time
4. Protection given
No one in their right mind is going to blame QB 1 in your scenario. His grading will be fine when the tape is reviewed.
However, let's say that the QB throwing the ball downfield just misses and gets picked due to great coverage, yet that QB has his best playmaker in the flats uncovered. Had he thrown the ball to his uncovered back that back might've only gotten 8 or 9 yards. Yet, you were in 4 down territory to begin with, so now you have a much better chance of converting because you played within the constructs of the system.
A QB at this level is often successful because unlike popular opinion he doesn't need to attack the entire field, he needs to work within the system and get the ball to his playmakers and let them do the work.
Is it spring practice yet? Bring on the next victim ... lol
Coaches grade that yes...but the QB Rating System to which fans love to reference doesn't.
I don't disagree, but it's hard to have a top 10 QB rating and say someone "sucks" no matter how you slice it.
The only thing that matters is, did we win or did we lose, I think tino falls short.
He does.. You have to be pretty special to will a team to victory at the QB position when the talent around you isn't that great. Secondly, using the ND game as an example there was a reason, I said it would have been a bigger upset than the WVU game. The talent they had trumps ours. Just to be in that game and perform the way the boys did for 3.5 quarters is amazing to me.
QB's who can will their team to a victory when the talent around them is average is rare. I think of guys like Cam Newton in the college game and Tim Tebow to be honest. When those guys left you saw the results afterwards.
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