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Unless Steve could have built Pitt a campus in Manhattan, there is little that could have been done.
Nordenberg is surely involved. He's very involved in conference matters. But Pitt was burned two years ago by the Big Ten and turned down the B12 just over a year ago. Not sure what those phone calls would accomplish right now, but I'd believe he constantly keeps up with his contacts. Remember, he has ties to Wisconsin, but the B10 clearly is not interested in Pitt.
Hoopies to ACC: 0%. No one is moving to the ACC at this point from the other conferences. Hoopies moving would be essentially swapping even (or slightly less) money and possibly decreased stability for geography. Plus they have tangled arrangements with the B12 paying off their BE exit fee along with a grant of rights.
I saw this on facebook - it's from Tallahassee and FSU.
If the ACC adds Louisville, and that's who my money is on right now, they're better off than they were with Maryland. Period. This death of the ACC stuff is nonsense. The ACC is playing by different rules than the Big 10. The Big 10 is worried about their network and getting it in as many homes as possible. The ACC doesn't have a network and, to the best of my knowledge, isn't developing one. The ACC needs to get the best teams that they can get for ESPN. Louisville is, and probably will continue to be as long as they have Charlie Strong, a top 25 football program and is currently the number 2 basketball team in the country. If Florida State and Clemson were mostly content before when Maryland was here, they'll be doing cartwheels about Louisville. Plus, Louisville creates another link to the SEC due to their rivalry with Kentucky along with Florida-Florida State, Georgia-Georgia Tech, and South Carolina-Clemson. Oh, and by the way, adding Louisville will allow the ACC to redo the TV deal that some insisted they got screwed on. Just settle down.
They're all playing by the same rules: the almighty $. The Big10 is winning, because of its network. Louisville cannot replace the market the ACC lost.
This death of the ACC stuff is perfectly logical.
THERE WILL NOT BE FIVE POWER CONFERENCES!! Get that through to your brain. The ACC's bowl situation WITH MARYLAND and a partner in ND was still garbage compared to the big boys.
If one major conference has to go then who will it be? Only one answer makes any sense at all.
BUT .. the remaining schools will form some decent league and continue playing football. The big boys don't want to get rid of Pitt and the other schools. They need the TV ratings and the markets. Pitt will just have to be the best of the worst to win a national title. We're about to be mid-majored .. unless we are extended an invitation by some miracle. Let's hope the Big 12 adds an eastern wing.
Betting on the ACC to beat out the Big 12 in this poker game is like betting on the Steelers to win last night's game. They already lost. The score is final. Rose bowl + Sugar Bowl = no ACC.
There is no way to know if there will be 5, 4, or 3 power conferences at this point. A lot is going to happen over the next decade. Neither the B12 or ACC are safe. The contract bowl issue is a red herring among fans. That's peanuts and the Orange is still with the ACC. ESPN and Fox are going to have a say too.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by CrazyPaco 17 months ago
Ok .. i respect that. If you differ on how many conferences then i can't really dispute that. I'm looking at it from the perspective that there will be four. It's just a way of life. Things happen symmetrically. It's natural. There are patterns that never seem to change.
Louisville can't cut it academically to be invited to the ACC. Louisville only prayer is the B12 .
I doubt the ACC will be in a hurry to invite another school with Md departure the piece of the pie just got bigger for everyone else in the ACC.
If ESPN can make it profitable to add UCONN they would be next into the ACC. Remember ESPN is headquartered in Bristal Conn.
Good news out of Tallahassee, found this on the Noles247 site
Earlier this year, Andy Haggard became the face and voice of the anti-ACC faction within Florida State's athletic hierarchy when he publicly blasted the league's television contract and said the school should explore a possible move to the Big 12.
But on the day Maryland left the ACC, Haggard, who is still on FSU's Board of Trustees but stepped down as chairman in June, told USA TODAY Sports that he doesn't see the Seminoles pursuing another league.
"We've had no overtures from anybody," Haggard said. "We've made no overtures. Florida State is right where they are right now. Whatever Maryland did is totally isolated, and we're going to stay the course and we're going to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference. I've heard nothing from the Board of Trustees or (athletic director) Randy Spetman, and I don't think it affects us one bit."
The ACC isn't the ACC anymore. Academics don't matter now. Uconn is still more attractive but BC has a presence up there already. Lville makes sense. UConn and Lville makes the most sense. Why leave anyone behind? In fact, just add all the usual suspects. If there isn't a pie then it doesn't matter how many are there to eat it.
Thats a huge sigh of relief. Now add Ville.
In standing by & doing nothing, which resulted in the B1G poaching a school from the only conference which is all-in with them, ESPN has already had their say. They plan on having 1st tier rights to major college football & basketball & the heck with everything else.
I'll give you three scenarios.
1. Status quo. The Deep South flank of the ACC, which has already reject the B12 overtures, continues to do so and keeps the ACC intact. As long as the ACC looks viable with FSU, Clemson, and GT, UNC and NCST (which are actually both schools in the same University of North Carolina System) aren't splitting up. UVA and VT will likely also stay as both are about geography and have healthy athletic departments. The ACC starts it's own network and the financial gap begins to close, especially if FSU and Miami ever get their act together. Another thing that could go right: many analysts see the playoff expanding to eight by the time it gets half way through it's current contract that ends in 2025. If it goes to eight, the five power conferences will likely be guaranteed a birth, with one reserved for the best team of the remaining conferences, plus two at-large slots. That could encourage Notre Dame to pick up three more annual ACC games, and by being a full member, give it two avenues to the national championship. That is the only think I could see motivating ND to join full time, and even if that is unlikely, that cements the conference.
2. 4X 16-team super-conferences becomes the standard. FSU determines the money is good enough and/or the ACC is too unstable and jumps to the B12 taking Clemson, and maybe Miami and GT with them. The SEC and Big Ten pick off VT/NCSF and UVA/UNC respectively and the Big Ten finally gets ND and ND makes them select BC or Pitt (don't hold your breath). Louisville and maybe Pitt or SU go to the B12. BC, Wake, Duke, please turn off the lights.
2a. In the above scenario, the Pac picks up additional footprint from San Diego St, Hawaii, UTEP, Boise, Nevada/UNLV, New Mexico or NMSU.
2b. The Pac goes after its original targets in the B12: UT, TT, OU, and OSU. OU already applied for membership on its own and was denied. Everyone is looking West. The remnants of the B12 and ACC merge and would look like this: KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor, TCU, WVU, FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, Louisville, Pitt, SU, UConn/BC, Duke/Wake Forest (perhaps Cincy). That's not a bad conference, but it won't be near the others in perception, money, and power. It will be a viable tweener, but also vulnerable if conference go beyond 16.
3. Expansion beyond 16. Everyone points to 16 because it is a nice even number, but is it easier than 18, or even 20. When territorial footprints for networks are the name of the game, no, there is probably no law that says stop at 20. If conferences start adding beyond 20, when does the timing and landscape look like at that point. Is the B12 or ACC still intact? Is there a left-over twener conference? The problem with this model is the Pac really doesn't have anywhere else to go. But say the Big10 (with UVA and UNC already in the fold) went to 18 or 20 because it decided to add new England with BC and UConn, head upstate to Syracuse or south to Georgia Tech? The SEC could respond by going into Kansas, West Virginia...heck, even Pennsylvania. Who knows. Such a scenario is way too many moves in the future to try to guess at.
Academics matter to the ACC , they took great pride when adding Pitt and Syracuse that the academic overall average exceeded the Big 10. Nebraska actually lowered the academic standards in the b10.
BC does not bring TV ratings, UCONN along with Syracuse have a shot to bring TV ratings in NY, more so than Rutgers. Alone Syracuse can't deliver the ratings but with UCONN they could.
Not sure ESPN could have stopped this.
It's true that ESPN doesn't seem interested in helping the ACC start a network when it is trying to push ESPNU. It has increased the ACC content in the last contract that it plans to fill into that channel (and ESPN3).
You could be right though.
Then again, they took FSU.
Institutional fit matters, to the point where it is still practical. I don't know if that is still the case when you are dropping charter members.
FSU is saying the right things, but then, public statements are meaningless. The truth is, they don't have anywhere that is really better to go unless the SEC decides it wants a second team in Florida. Watch their actions carefully.
IF the ACC leadership is still concerned about academics then this conference is surely doomed. D1 CFB is all about the benjamins and academics do not matter. None of these conference raids were made for academics. Perhaps thats the window dressing they'd like you to believe but this has always been and always will be about money.
Oh and one other thing, the quality of the program matters more than geographical location. Look at the SEC. What big market teams are in the SEC and yet they will name their price on the next contract. THe quality of the product still matters.
THe ACC has vt to cover the market MD supposedly delivers. They need to replace the crappy MD program with one on the rise and that is clearly Ville. That will raise the profie of the ACC far more than any other school and ultimately deliver the TV market.
Oh and I read this elsewhere but this makes some sense. THe fat ten didnt make their move until ND made theirs. This recent Fat ten move could be more about trying to fracture the ACC and get ND to join the Fat ten long term. Makes as much sense as delivering the Dc market
A "Real PITT MAN"............get off my porch!
It's always about ND with the Big Ten.
Texas started this mess. ND will end it.
To play devils advocate, I would say when you collect the flagships of entire states, it's equivalent to a large metro market, particularly when there are few competing professional franchises. The Big Ten has shown that quality doesn't matter at all (MD and RU) if you have the right territory, but quality is important (Nebraska) when you don't. We'll see soon enough the thinking of the ACC.
Actually well see how important geographic location is IF the Fat ten is able to parlay MD and RU into a mega bucks deal and sustain it. Although it will be hard to determine just how much MD and RU deliver on the new contract. As someone else pointed out, at some point MD and RU have to deliver TV sets that are actually watching the games. Currently, those schools do nothing to add more tv sets actually following the Big Ten. Unless those programs improve greatly, that wont change and the value of the geographic location will diminish.
I have no clue where this notion that there has to be four super-conferences comes from. Absolutely none. Dennis Dodd has rewritten the same article probably ten times over the last 30 months how the end is near, and it hasn't happened yet. Going to 16 schools is a HUGE leap. This whole thing is media driven because the Andy Katz's, Joe Schaad's, etc of the world get hard over this stuff. There's never been any evidence to any conference expanding to 16 schools, other than the Pac-12's flirtation with it a few years ago, which ended up failing. If the Big Ten wanted to go to 16, why not just do it now and be done with it? Why wait? The answer is because there are a ton of logistics that need to be worked out to make such a move. Like it or not, this is A LOT bigger than television contracts. The SEC has said they're comfortable at 14 schools, the Big 12 has said they're comfortable at 10 schools, and the Pac-12 has said they're comfortable at 12 schools. Why can't we just accept that the Big 10 made one, isolated move to expand the footprint of their network and that's it? Why in the world does everything have to turn to armageddon? The ACC will add another school, likely either Louisville or UCONN, and all will be back to normal.
And I don't buy this crap about TV markets. It's such a cop out. Yest it's important for the Big Ten because of their network. I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference for anybody else. If it did, then the Big East was set for life. I mean hell, they had New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, DC, etc. How could they go wrong? I'll tell you how, because the product sucked. Your product always comes first. And if the ACC bring on UCONN out of this ridiculous notion that it will give us the New York market, or whatever the hell they're thinking, then they deserve everything they get. You bring on Louisville, you play good football, and everything will take care of itself. There will be a lot more people in New York that will watch Louisville vs Florida State than Rutgers vs Indiana. You can take that to the bank. And with technological advances like ESPN3 and the Watch ESPN App, it is becoming easier and easier and easier to watch whatever game that you want regardless of where you are.
This post was edited by Vedderman87 17 months ago
More so than a 16-team finish line for conferences, I think the thing to watch is if conferences' networks spur further territorial conquest. There may be no number that is too high. At some point, the consolidation may allow the top of the heap to shed the NCAA altogether.
The problem with the Big East's markets is that they didn't have those markets for football, which is where the money is, and the one's they did were often small private schools with little fan bases. The B10 already has the big fanbases, national brands, and flagships, not to mention Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, etc.
This post was edited by CrazyPaco 17 months ago
No number will be too high AS LONG AS there are TV sets to add .. tickets to sell .. interest and commerce to generate. There is a saturation point. The bubble will burst if the greed is not balanced by vision and cooperation .. organization. This poker match won't last much longer. They need to consolidate and then the organization will come. I fear the ACC is the blemish that needs to go.
Then the remaining conferences will sit down and work out the path forward.
OR NOT .. and stupidity will continue.
This post was edited by Pitt0008mmd 17 months ago
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