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Big Ten looking at Oklahoma?

  • Seriously, this makes no less sense viable than any of the other BS out there.

    http://syracusefan.com/threads/big-ten-is-indeed-looking-at-further-expansion.27187/

    How do you know when someone is immediately full of BS? When they state that ND is going to put their football program in the B12-4+2.

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    CrazyPaco

  • Much ado about nothing.

    The only way any team leaves the B12 for 7 years (soon to be 13) is if there is a mass exodus and there is no conference left to have a TV contract. So (4) teams need to leave the night before the deadline (like the ACC tried to do the last time if not for Prosser leaking it). If the B12 was magically sitting that 6 teams, then the TV contract and conference would be voided.

    So TX & Tech would have to go PAC and OU to B1G with OSU or KS in one fell swoop.

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    GhostOfPitt4014 ●

  • Alot of Big Time Boosters like to think they are more important than they really are. Especially connections wise. On something of that magnitude, certainly would not be discussed at that level until it becomes imminent.

    owtahear

  • GhostOfPitt#40 said...

    The only way any team leaves the B12 for 7 years (soon to be 13) is if there is a mass exodus and there is no conference left to have a TV contract.

    False. GORs are not some sort of iron clad cure all. They can be bought out like any other contract.

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    CrazyPaco

  • owtahear said...

    Alot of Big Time Boosters like to think they are more important than they really are. Especially connections wise. On something of that magnitude, certainly would not be discussed at that level until it becomes imminent.

    Ahh, like FSU and Clemson leaving the ACC.

    This post was edited by CrazyPaco on 5/29/2012 at 3:37 PM

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    CrazyPaco

  • There was some smoke to this last year.

    Despite the fact I'm a Penn Stater, I grew up a die hard OU fan and went to four or five games a year until I came up north.

    According to the boosters I talked to, OU was kicking the tires whenever this Longhorn Network bullshit came about, and the two conferences that were legitimately interested were the PAC 12 and the B1G. OU wanted to bring KU, OSU, and KSU along with them, or at least some combination of them, but the B1G only wanted OU.

    The TV market isn't big enough in Kansas, or Oklahoma for that matter, to justify splitting the pie up to include the KS schools. The only reason OU is viable is because it's one of the best historical programs in the country, and there are a lot of OU fans in North Texas, specifically Dallas/Fort Worth.

    TIFWIW, but I doubt something will happen. Isn't the Big 12 up for a new TV contract anyway? And the Longhorn Network has been a massive failure, so if that goes away then there would be a lot of money on the table.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • Texas Lion said...

    There was some smoke to this last year.

    Despite the fact I'm a Penn Stater, I grew up a die hard OU fan and went to four or five games a year until I came up north.

    According to the boosters I talked to, OU was kicking the tires whenever this Longhorn Network bullshit came about, and the two conferences that were legitimately interested were the PAC 12 and the B1G. OU wanted to bring KU, OSU, and KSU along with them, or at least some combination of them, but the B1G only wanted OU.

    The TV market isn't big enough in Kansas, or Oklahoma for that matter, to justify splitting the pie up to include the KS schools. The only reason OU is viable is because it's one of the best historical programs in the country, and there are a lot of OU fans in North Texas, specifically Dallas/Fort Worth.

    TIFWIW, but I doubt something will happen. Isn't the Big 12 up for a new TV contract anyway? And the Longhorn Network has been a massive failure, so if that goes away then there would be a lot of money on the table.

    Let's face it, OU makes as all much asense as adding Nebraska does....and by that I mean it actually makes more sense than FSU and Clemson going to the B12.

    In fact, OU's profile to Nebraska is all most identical.

    In CFBDW's all-time team rankings, OU is #4 whereas Nebraska was #8.

    In CLC's licensing rankings OU is #12 whereas Nebraska was #13.

    It is a large, state-flagship.

    OU has openly tried to leave the B12 for the Pac, even without Texas.

    The B10 would provide a major improvement in perception of academic affiliations for OU. Perhaps even moreso than the Pac.

    Problems...

    Academics and not being in the AAU; this was seen not be be important for UNL, as the machinations to have UNL removed from the AAU were well underway (and known to every single B10 school) prior to invitation. It also shares an identical US News ranking as UNL (#101).

    GOR deal: not officially signed, and can be bought out like any other contract. Anyone that says differently is whistling past the graveyard.

    Oklahoma is not a contiguous state.

    Tag alongs: eg Okie State.

    ---

    From the B10's position, OU is no different than Nebraska except for a problem with it shedding its political tag along in OSU.The B10 has also shown an ability to schedule with an uneven number of teams if they wanted to wait on other teams (like UT or ND) to go to 14. Other than desiring contiguous states, I see no reason other than OkieSt why it wouldn't happen. It would be a major improvement in position for OU. But that said, I doubt OU could ever shed OSU.

    This post has been edited 5 times, most recently by CrazyPaco on 5/29/2012 at 4:07 PM

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    CrazyPaco

  • Texas Lion said...

    There was some smoke to this last year.

    Despite the fact I'm a Penn Stater, I grew up a die hard OU fan and went to four or five games a year until I came up north.

    According to the boosters I talked to, OU was kicking the tires whenever this Longhorn Network bullshit came about, and the two conferences that were legitimately interested were the PAC 12 and the B1G. OU wanted to bring KU, OSU, and KSU along with them, or at least some combination of them, but the B1G only wanted OU.

    The TV market isn't big enough in Kansas, or Oklahoma for that matter, to justify splitting the pie up to include the KS schools. The only reason OU is viable is because it's one of the best historical programs in the country, and there are a lot of OU fans in North Texas, specifically Dallas/Fort Worth.

    TIFWIW, but I doubt something will happen. Isn't the Big 12 up for a new TV contract anyway? And the Longhorn Network has been a massive failure, so if that goes away then there would be a lot of money on the table.

    I am not sure what ND is doing these days ratings wise...but you would think it is almost at a point where a renegotiated TV contract with the Big 10 or ACC (let's be honest, these are the only two destinations for ND) might make them start to question their independence.

    Because as someone who grew up Irish Catholic in Pittsburgh, ND still had some reverence for me as a kid, and definite relevance. There are less and less of me now, and ND has not been a much better program than say Pitt over the last decade.

    I can't imagine their ratings being better now than when they first linked up with NBC.

    owtahear

  • owtahear said...

    I am not sure what ND is doing these days ratings wise...but you would think it is almost at a point where a renegotiated TV contract with the Big 10 or ACC (let's be honest, these are the only two destinations for ND) might make them start to question their independence.

    Because as someone who grew up Irish Catholic in Pittsburgh, ND still had some reverence for me as a kid, and definite relevance. There are less and less of me now, and ND has not been a much better program than say Pitt over the last decade.

    I can't imagine their ratings being better now than when they first linked up with NBC.

    I think I've read that ND's ratings are down. But, NBC is desperate for college football content so I don't think ND is going to be pressured into a conference for financial reasons. If they really were only about money, they'd be in the Big 10 because they'd likely make more money there than as an independent. But as long as the money is in the ballpark of other schools, they'll continue to value their "unique" status as an independent which allows them to play a national schedule. Fans of schools or conferences that haven't dealt with ND don't seem to understand that. That's how you know people spewing the B12 crap are so full of it, because they have absolutely no understanding of how ND thinks or works. ND will preserve independence almost at all costs. I could see only three things causing them to give up independence: 1) Truly losing access to the national championship picture or major bowls (unlikely) 2) Loss of a viable media contract with NBC or someone else (I also see this as highly unlikely) 3) Complete collapse of the Big East as a viable, relatively major conference to place their remaining sports. In that circumstance, I think they'd try to force a deal with some other conference, like the B12, that would be similar to the BE's deal. And only conferences that are weak, like the BE or B12, would think about doing it.

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    CrazyPaco

  • CrazyPaco said...

    I think I've read that ND's ratings are down. But, NBC is desperate for college football content so I don't think ND is going to be pressured into a conference for financial reasons. If they really were only about money, they'd be in the Big 10 because they'd likely make more money there than as an independent. But as long as the money is in the ballpark of other schools, they'll continue to value their "unique" status as an independent which allows them to play a national schedule. Fans of schools or conferences that haven't dealt with ND don't seem to understand that. That's how you know people spewing the B12 crap are so full of it, because they have absolutely no understanding of how ND thinks or works. ND will preserve independence almost at all costs. I could see only three things causing them to give up independence: 1) Truly losing access to the national championship picture or major bowls (unlikely) 2) Loss of a viable media contract with NBC or someone else (I also see this as highly unlikely) 3) Complete collapse of the Big East as a viable, relatively major conference to place their remaining sports. In that circumstance, I think they'd try to force a deal with some other conference, like the B12, that would be similar to the BE's deal. And only conferences that are weak, like the BE or B12, would think about doing it.

    Agree on all points, except I do think it is more likely now, than just a year ago, that the Big 10 or ACC would accept ND as a partial member. They would have to believe two things, however: 1) That significant conference realignments are on the short horizon, and 2) ND's ability to continue to generate football revenue might be negatively impacted by the playoff arrangement. If they believe both of these are realistic possibilities, either league (ACC moreso) should consider that getting ND as a partial member now could lead to full membership down the road, maybe in just a few years...of course, there is the possibility they would be stuck with a BE-like relationship indefinitely, which is probably a deal breaker...however, I think it's increasingly likely if 1 and 2 above start to look realistic...

    This post was edited by pittnut on 5/30/2012 at 11:37 AM

    pittnut

  • pittnut said...
    there is the possibility they would be stuck with a BE-like relationship indefinitely, which is probably a deal breaker...however, I think it's increasingly likely if 1 and 2 above start to look realistic...

    That is why the ACC would be foolish to do it. It makes you look weak because it is a move of weakness. If the ACC did it, it would be criticized as such. If the B12 does it, it will be hailed as a coup because you have 500 insane hilljacks running around every message board on the internet shouting how they and their new conference are some invincible power.

    And once you let ND have their cake, you have zero leverage to move the school into full-membership. Just ask the BE.

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    CrazyPaco

  • CrazyPaco said...

    That is why the ACC would be foolish to do it. It makes you look weak because it is a move of weakness. If the ACC did it, it would be criticized as such. If the B12 does it, it will be hailed as a coup because you have 500 insane hilljacks running around every message board on the internet shouting how they and their new conference are some invincible power.

    And once you let ND have their cake, you have zero leverage to move the school into full-membership. Just ask the BE.

    agree, the ACC would have to believe that ND, on their own, will reach the conclusion that they have to join a conference (the Big East pipe-dream)...and, I can only see that happening if ND sees the ground moving beneath them...for that to happen, ND would have to believe there is imminent, significant conference realignment that may impede their scheduling AND a loss of TV/Bowl revenue due to the playoff arrangement that makes it more difficult for ND to participate.

    I'm not too worried about a "position of weakness", as that is clearly a stronger position than being left at the altar if teams defect and there is no ND...the Big 12 and ACC are more exposed than the other 3 conferences, and they should be trying to figure out how they will still have a seat when the music stops...the Big12/SEC bowl game is a positive step for the Big 12, one the ACC does not seem to have an answer for...that game could strengthen the Big 12 to the point that the ACC is the one without a chair...partially locking up ND with a large buyout might be the impetus to cause the Big 10 to look at the Big 12 for expansion if they feel the need to expand...and with the PAC 12 really having nowhere else to turn but the Big 12 for growth, that puts the bullseye squarely back on the Big 12, just like it was last year...in my view, more realignment favors the ACC, as it targets the Big 12, and anything the ACC can do that instigates more realignment without watering down the conference is a positive...so, depending on how things play out, I can see ND as a partial member as a smart move, but would only do it if the circumstances were right...

    pittnut

  • Personally, if OU were to move, I would want to keep up the annual rivalry with Texas. I hate their fanbase more than any other in the nation, with OSU neck and neck with them.

    Texas doesn't seem to mind losing rivalry games, because they are arrogant and believe they're a strong enough program that they could survive despite burning every bridge in the business. If the Big 12 does fall apart, they might seriously consider going independent so they wouldn't have to split any revenue with another school. That would be retarded, and they most likely wouldn't pick that route, but they would consider it. A strong conference wouldn't want to deal with their BS, but they would still take UT as a program provided the split wasn't outrageous.

    OU would find somewhere to land, with OSU riding the coattails, and Texas and Texas Tech could probably move into the PAC 12 without much issue after the Longhorn Network collapses.

    Depressing topic for me though, because I grew up in the heart of "Big 12 Country," and it would be strange to watch my Sooners play Midwestern teams or California schools regularly.

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • No conference is completely safe. If the B10 invited Mizzou tomorrow, does anyone believe they wouldn't be gone?

    I'll tell you what I think is the genuine cement for the ACC if they get through this: academic snobbery.

    In addition to playing up the football traditions of existing members...ie Georgia Tech, Pitt, SU, FSU, Clemson, and Miami, they should also sell the elitism of conference academics every chance they get...as part of their commercials, their in-game look-ins. Put on a conference-wide research conference in a hotel across the street from the ACC basketball tournament and sell the scheet out of it. Ensure Dick Vitale is slobbering over how smart the ACC is, how much it personifies the ideals of college athletics, as much as he expounds on Coach K and Dook basketball. Expand the scope of the ACCIAC. Even if it is all superficial, perception, perception, perception. Make it very difficult for academic administrators or alumni to consider leaving the conference by preying on their elitism.

    Do you think Harvard or Yale could make a lot more money, ala Stanford, if they sponsored FBS sports? No one is going to leave the Ivy League. Likewise, no one is going to leave a conference that is perceived to be so academically superior if that side of it is emphasized. But two fold: football and Ivy. Make it the Ivy of football.

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    CrazyPaco

  • Do you think the ACC does that though??

    I admittedly know nothing about their commissioner, is he strong/smart enough to do that?

    This post was edited by Texas Lion on 5/30/2012 at 4:08 PM

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    ‏@Cordale10 Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

    Texas Lion

  • Texas Lion said...

    Do you think the ACC does that though??

    I admittedly know nothing about their commissioner, is he strong/smart enough to do that?

    I doubt it. That's what I would do though: emphasize football tradition and academic elitism.

    UT probably would have already gone independent but they, unlike ND, have no other viable major conference in which to place their other sports.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by CrazyPaco on 5/30/2012 at 8:23 PM

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    CrazyPaco

  • Pretty tough to pull off a successful Ivy/Patriot League of the FBS image with FSU and Clemson here. There's zero chance Swofford loses either of them to the Big 12, but if he loses them to the SEC maybe the presidents should raise minimum academic requirements across the board, bring in Army, Navy, Rutgers and Vanderbilt, and rebrand it the Atlantic League or some other tweed jacket title to go along with a PR campaign stressing they're the only FBS league to require athletes to be student athletes. That would be a genuine commitment from academic-first FBS schools to align with one another based on academics. Pitt's profile would benefit greatly from such an endorsement from the leaders of Duke, Virginia, et al.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by SBR on 5/30/2012 at 10:07 PM

    SBR

  • No way am I actually calling for increasing academic standards for athletic admissions. That is competitive suicide. I'm just for emphasizing the perception of the ACC as the elite academic sports conference. Sort of the reverse of the SEC for football.

    More of this: "Only the Ivy League includes more top 40 universities (as ranked by US News)" from http://acciac.org/

    Perception will drive improvement across the lower academic half of the conference.

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    CrazyPaco

  • New rumor out there, Vandy exploring a move to the ACC.

    That would definitely be an academic move.

    Conferences by SAT score

    ACC
    1 Duke 1475
    2 Georgia Tech 1355
    3 Boston College 1350
    3 Virginia 1350
    5 Miami 1315
    5 Wake Forest 1315
    7 North Carolina 1300
    8 Maryland 1295
    9 Pitt 1275
    10 Clemson 1235
    11 Virginia Tech 1210
    12 Florida State 1200
    13 NC State 1185
    14 Syracuse 1160
    ACC average 1287.1
    ACC median 1297.5

    Big Ten
    1 Northwestern 1445
    2 Michigan 1350
    3 Illinois 1335
    4 Wisconsin 1290
    5 Minnesota 1290
    6 Ohio State 1250
    7 Penn State 1195
    8 Nebraska 1180
    9 Purdue 1170
    10 Indiana 1165
    11 Iowa 1152.5
    12 Michigan St 1125
    Big Ten average 1245.625
    Big Ten median 1222.5

    Pac-12
    1 Stanford 1455
    2 USC 1385
    3 Cal-Berkeley 1370
    4 UCLA 1300
    5 Washington 1215
    6 Colorado 1170
    7 Utah 1141.5
    8 Oregon 1108
    9 Arizona St 1105
    10 Arizona 1095
    11 Oregon St 1075
    12 Washington St 1065
    Pac-12 average 1207.041667
    Pac-12 median 1155.75

    SEC
    1 Vanderbilt 1465
    2 Florida 1260
    3 Auburn 1240
    4 Georgia 1215
    5 Texas A&M 1210
    6 South Carolina 1195
    7 Missouri 1175
    8 Tennessee 1165
    9 LSU 1135
    10 Arkansas 1130
    11 Alabama 1127.5
    12 Kentucky 1115
    13 Mississippi St 1102.5
    14 Mississippi 1055
    SEC average 1185
    SEC median 1170

    Big 12
    1 Texas 1250
    2 Baylor 1235
    3 Oklahoma 1180
    4 TCU 1170
    5 Iowa St 1145
    5 Kansas 1145*
    7 Oklahoma St 1110
    8 Kansas St 1105*
    8 Texas Tech 1105
    10 West Virginia 1055
    Big 12 average 1150
    Big 12 median 1145
    * converted from ACT

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    CrazyPaco

  • CrazyPaco said...

    I doubt it. That's what I would do though: emphasize football tradition and academic elitism.

    UT probably would have already gone independent but they, unlike ND, have no other viable major conference in which to place their other sports.

    That is why Texas has been in talks with the PAC, B1G, and ACC in the past 2 years with the third tier rights, $15 mil a year, Longhorn Network being the only sticking point. Meaning Texas was given no offer they felt was worthy of giving the Longhorn Network up for.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by GoingCoastal on 6/1/2012 at 12:08 AM

    GoingCoastal ●

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