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Big East non-footballs may break off.

  • Thankfully, we haven't been talking about that possibility for the past ten years.

    It would be really cool to see an eastern-midwestern Catholic conference, which would be really hip in basketball.

    East
    Georgetown
    St. John's
    Seton Hall
    Villanova
    Saint Joseph's
    La Salle
    Providence
    Manhattan

    West
    Marquette
    DePaul
    Saint Louis
    Dayton
    Xavier
    Duquesne
    St. Bonaventure
    Niagara

    Manhattan and Niagara may be stretches, so you could go with two 7-team divisions. Or you could go bigger...Canisius, Siena, Marist, etc. are out there. Basically, you'd take all of the Big East Catholic schools, all the A-10 Catholic schools, and then steal from the Metro Atlantic conference. Have one of those terrible ESPN bracket-buster type weeks with this conference and the all-religious-most-Catholic West Coast Conference. Yada yada yada.

    shruggs

  • I see three respectable programs out of 16 in this model. Not that the BE offers much more...

    Hail to Pitt.

    EveryLoyalSon

  • It's true---the question is, is there enough potential there that some of the members could get a lot better? And would the schools have recruiting benefits with Catholic high schools?

    Take my beloved Dayton Flyers as an example. Very rabid fanbase, great arena, existing rivalry with Xavier. Presumably these guys could really benefit from an exposure bump. I may be wrong, but I'd think the conference would in fact get such an exposure bump. Obviously the league wouldn't be comprised with a bunch of sleeping giants or anything, but I think it would be quite competitive and, if done properly, could be the "cool" league, ABA-style.

    shruggs

  • shruggs said...

    It's true---the question is, is there enough potential there that some of the members could get a lot better? And would the schools have recruiting benefits with Catholic high schools?

    Take my beloved Dayton Flyers as an example. Very rabid fanbase, great arena, existing rivalry with Xavier. Presumably these guys could really benefit from an exposure bump. I may be wrong, but I'd think the conference would in fact get such an exposure bump. Obviously the league wouldn't be comprised with a bunch of sleeping giants or anything, but I think it would be quite competitive and, if done properly, could be the "cool" league, ABA-style.

    I know it doesn't matter as much for hoops as football, but you've got a distinct lack of markets and/or split markets. Duquesne has a nice market in Pittsburgh, but you know that nobody cares. Xavier has a nice market, but Cinci is king. Nova shares with Temple, St. Joes, PSU, et. al. In fact, you've got two Philly schools in the same division. In order to get the theorhetical exposure bump, you'd have to have a nice TV deal. I just don't see it happening.

    I think it would be good basketball, but I just don't know that it's a viable long-term model. Your ABA analogy is kind of interesting, though. Then again, the ABA wasn't a viable long-term model, either.

    Hail to Pitt.

    EveryLoyalSon

  • EveryLoyalSon said...

    I see three respectable programs out of 16 in this model. Not that the BE offers much more...

    Three? Really? I see alot more.

    Georgetown obviously. Villanova obviously. Marquette obviously. Xavier obviously. If you can't see those 4 right off the bat, you don't follow college hoops.

    Saint Joes was a #1 seed this past decade. Dayton has alot of tradition. St. Johns has more tradition than any of them. That is 7 "respectable" programs. Seton Hall is an in and out every other year NCAA team. St. Louis has its moments. Depaul if it could ever figure it out could be a sleeping giant.

    This conference looks as good as anyone else. It would be a major conference, not a bracket buster, mid major.

    owtahear

  • owtahear said...

    Three? Really? I see alot more.

    Georgetown obviously. Villanova obviously. Marquette obviously. Xavier obviously. If you can't see those 4 right off the bat, you don't follow college hoops.

    Saint Joes was a #1 seed this past decade. Dayton has alot of tradition. St. Johns has more tradition than any of them. That is 7 "respectable" programs. Seton Hall is an in and out every other year NCAA team. St. Louis has its moments. Depaul if it could ever figure it out could be a sleeping giant.

    This conference looks as good as anyone else. It would be a major conference, not a bracket buster, mid major.

    Xavier is decent, but they're not even #1 in their own city.

    St. Joes was a #1 seed because of the fluke of a small school getting a once-in-a-lifetime player. Dayton has tradition, but so does Pitt football. That wins you exactly zero games and puts exactly zero butts in seats. St. Louis has it's moments? When? DePaul has been called a sleeping giant since before they joined the Big East.

    You're nuts if you think this isnt, at best, a good mid-major.

    Hail to Pitt.

    EveryLoyalSon

  • The question I have is:

    Why does DePaul, Seton Hall or Providence think they deserve as much money as football-playing FBS school ? Or perhaps better stated, more than say Fordham, St Bonnie's, St Louis or St Joe's?

    I was never clear (and my father is an SHU grad) - why the Catholic hoops schools somewhow feel entitled to such huge payouts? Based on what exactly?

    If they split, fine they split. But they shouldn't complain that TV won't be shelling out major bucks for their product.

    If you really take a closer look at the BE hoops games, the only big games sans occasional games against Nova, Gtown and Marquette...almost 100% of the time involved the football-playing schools. Such as Pitt-UCONN, Cuse-UCONN, Pitt-Cuse, WVU-UCONN, etc

    For most of the past 15 or so years, I can't remember a single time when I watched Seton Hall play Providence or games like that. Even Seton Hall vs Gtwon.

    There's just no demand (on a large scale) for that content. These are tiny schools we are talking about here. They really belong with other tiny schools.

    The football playing schools kept them afloat for years and now they are wondering why their TV deal sucks and nobody wants to be in a league with them? Cmon already.

    curtismartinfan

  • isn't this backwards,
    shouldn't it be the basketball schools kicking out the football schools and taking the big east back to what it started as, a really good basketball conference?
    instead of an average to below average football conference with some teams that play basketball too.

    Steve Flinn

  • Should have happened about a decade ago

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    ACardAttack

  • Andy Katz seems to think the split IS going to happen.

    I'm hearing the following schools mentioned:

    East:
    SHU
    St Johns
    Gtown
    Nova
    Providence
    Dayton

    West:
    Gonzaga
    Creighton
    St Louis
    Marquette
    DePaul
    Xavier

    Only shame would be Duquesne being left out. I was kinda hoping they'd get into the new league.

    Other Catholic Schools to consider:
    St Joes
    LaSalle
    St Bonnie's
    Fordham

    But dont add any new TV markets sadly.

    Here's the Zags to Big East rumors:
    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/69795/3-point-shot-gonzaga-eying-big-east

    This post was edited by curtismartinfan on 12/12/2012 at 6:25 PM

    curtismartinfan

  • curtismartinfan said...

    Andy Katz seems to think the split IS going to happen.

    I'm hearing the following schools mentioned:

    East: SHU St Johns Gtown Nova Providence Dayton

    West: Gonzaga Creighton St Louis Marquette DePaul Xavier

    Only shame would be Duquesne being left out. I was kinda hoping they'd get into the new league.

    Other Catholic Schools to consider: St Joes LaSalle St Bonnie's Fordham

    But dont add any new TV markets sadly.

    Here's the Zags to Big East rumors: http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/69795/3-point-shot-gonzaga-eying-big-east

    Gonzaga, that is really far west...isnt that West Coast? This league won't have any football money coming in to spend

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    ACardAttack

  • ACardAttack said...

    Gonzaga, that is really far west...isnt that West Coast? This league won't have any football money coming in to spend

    Gonzaga is in Spokane, WA. Not happening. The reason the 7 are breaking off is to get away from this sort of mess. They want regional, like-minded schools.

    I think the Big East 7 adds 3 and sits at 10. Probably Xavier, Dayton and St. Louis.

    One thing they won't do is duplicate markets with other NY or Philly teams.

    It will be the best non power conference, but not by as far as gap as they'd probably hope. The gap will shrink with time.

    Duquesne has no chance. Their support is too poor and they've just been too bad for too long. It's a shame. They'd probably have a shot if they had come anywhere near the NCAAs once or twice in the last decade.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by CrazyPaco on 12/13/2012 at 6:43 PM

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    CrazyPaco

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